Cc-europe mailing list

[Paul Keller <pk AT kl.nl>]

Dear all,
it has taken a bit longer than expected but we finally have a new  
draft of a letter online. it uses bits of pieces of Juan Carlos'  
original letter intermixed with some of the suggestions that came up  
in the discussion on this list and in the previous mail by Alek and  
me. please have a look at it (and improve or correct) at http://cc-europe.jottit.com/ 
 (pwd: vilnius). i think it is important that we move relatively  
quickly with this.

i would suggest that once we have heard from all those who have  
contributed to the discussion (Juan Carlos, John, Alek, Catharina,  
Hendrik, Prodromos, Francois, Florian & Ignasi) if they can live with  
this letter we go out ans ask other PLs to sign it.

all the best from amsterdam,
paul




On 17 Apr 2008, at 12:05, Prodromos Tsiavos wrote:
> Hi Paul and Alek,
>
> I agree with John that these are good ideas. Governance is our key  
> issue and
> it will probably make more sense to suggest  a real-space
> meeting -discussion about these issues (either in one of the following
> COMMUNIA meetings or the iSummit).
>
> Please re-draft the letter and post it on the jotitt space asap and  
> I will
> then try to contact individually all members of the cc europe list  
> to make
> sure that we have a yes or no for the letter by the 25th.
>
> best,
> pRo
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hendrik Weitzmann" <jhweitzmann AT mx.uni-saarland.de>
> To: <cc-europe AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cc-europe] draft letter to the CC Board on  
> communication and
> governance
>
>
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > good ideas. If you draft something regarding the advisory board
> > discussed earlier, I'm fine with it not having special rights but it
> > should be a little more than just 5 people I think.
> >
> > all the best from B.
> > John
> >
> >
> > Paul Keller schrieb:
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > so alek and i were sitting down to have a look at the draft letter
> > > again this morning and realized that this is probably not the way to
> > > move forward. (first of all nobody had even undertaken the effort to
> > > upload it to the jotitt space!). most of you will have seen mike's  
> > > pre-
> > > announcement of the new CC0 beta on the cci list this morning and in
> > > this light i think it does not make sense to start the letter by
> > > pointing out that there are no pre announcements. given this that  
> > > the
> > > letter needs to be completely re-written.
> > >
> > > it would probably make sense to start with the issues of governance
> > > raised in the discussion on this list and then touch on  
> > > communication
> > > at the end. we might make a couple of suggestions (international
> > > advisory board, clear communication guidelines, transparency  
> > > regarding
> > > projects in the pipeline, pointing out that we do not think that  
> > > post
> > > porting work of the international projects should be represented via
> > > icommons, etc...) and then suggest some kind of venue where there
> > > could be a discussion about the issues raised in the letter. how to
> > > formulate this might require some thinking as we do not think that
> > > such a discussion can be held on a list (or even worse a wiki) so it
> > > might mean that we ask for some kind of physical meeting  
> > > (connected to
> > > the isummit or not).
> > >
> > > in any case we should get this letter done before friday the 25th
> > > otherwise we might just forget about it. if people think we should
> > > move along these lines please do let us know and we will come up  
> > > with
> > > a new draft before friday the 18th.
> > >
> > > all the best from Amsterdam,
> > > Alek and Paul
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 6 Apr 2008, at 15:38, Paul Keller wrote:
> > > > Dear All,
> > > > first of all thanks to J.C for drafting this letter. i think it  
> > > > makes
> > > > a very good starting point. regarding the issues raised in  
> > > > vilnius and
> > > > in replies to J.C's draft i think they fall into two issues that do
> > > > not necessarily belong together. the first (and that seems to be  
> > > > the
> > > > one that triggered the letter) is one of communication or rather  
> > > > the
> > > > lack of communication from HQ to the international projects. i  
> > > > think
> > > > we are right to point this out and we should make our point  
> > > > clearly.
> > > > the way Mia handled 3.0 has shown that  it is possible and while  
> > > > John
> > > > W is right to point out that it is generally possible to figure out
> > > > what they are planning by asking questions or listening closely...
> > > >
> > > > On 4 Apr 2008, at 02:40, John Hendrik Weitzmann wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > a pre-discussed "we the people" mail seems a bit like desperate
> > > > > measures
> > > > > to me, and I think things are not _that_ bad after all. And the
> > > > > possibilities I meant to influence CCHQ are the regular ones, like
> > > > > asking the right people there the right questions, writing  
> > > > > proposals
> > > > > and
> > > > > sending them over mailing lists or channeling requests through the
> > > > > CCi
> > > > > office. So far I never got turned down by anyone in S.F. or  
> > > > > Berlin.
> > > > ... i do think that communication from HQ to the international
> > > > projects should be proactive. preferably by means of consultation
> > > > regarding upcoming projects, but in any case we should insist on  
> > > > pre-
> > > > announcements and maybe even en periodic update regarding  
> > > > activities
> > > > and plans. (maybe we can get Joi so far as to write bi-monthly  
> > > > updates
> > > > to the international projects?). Thinking of this, it might be a  
> > > > good
> > > > idea to write the letter to Joi & Jamie Boyle in their capacities  
> > > > as
> > > > CEO and chairman of the board. they are both new in their positions
> > > > and we could take as the starting point of our letter rather than  
> > > > the
> > > > complaint about how CC0 and CC+ where handled. This might be a bit
> > > > more elegant.
> > > >
> > > > Secondly there is the issue inclusion of the international projects
> > > > into the decision making process (again along the lines of what  
> > > > John W
> > > > suggested in his last mail) and what i called ann international  
> > > > legal
> > > > advisory board in Vilnius
> > > >
> > > > On 4 Apr 2008, at 02:40, John Hendrik Weitzmann wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Instead of complaining about having nothing to decide in S.F. we
> > > > > should
> > > > > maybe suggest that CCHQ should - in the light of the progressing
> > > > > internationalization of CC as a concept - set up something like an
> > > > > international advisory board of commoners, mutually nominated by  
> > > > > CCHQ
> > > > > and the national CC projects. That IAB could simply be  
> > > > > counselling or
> > > > > get equipped with certain rights, like ...
> > > > > - approving nominees for internationally important positions  
> > > > > (General
> > > > > Cousel maybe?)
> > > > > - approving the CC policies relevant for international projects
> > > > > - deciding on what parts of the CC portfolio should get ported
> > > > > internationally
> > > > > - ...
> > > >
> > > > however contrary to what John W. suggests here i would position the
> > > > board differently. not so much as another layer of aproval required
> > > > for certain actions (i would guess that the cc-board wont be very
> > > > thrilled by the idea of installing such a body) but rather as an
> > > > advisory board that embodies the expertise of CC projects outside  
> > > > of
> > > > the US. i am specifically thinking of legal expertise here and as  
> > > > such
> > > > i would assume such a board should consist of a small number (5?)
> > > > respected scholars from outside of the US and as such complement  
> > > > the
> > > > CC-board when discussing legal issues of international importance  
> > > > (the
> > > > cc-board almost US only). Secondly such a board could also serve  
> > > > as a
> > > > backup body for CCi to give advice in situations where there are
> > > > different approaches among the jurisdiction teams that need to be
> > > > harmonized (think moral rights, neighboring rights or database
> > > > rights). right now we are missing transparent processes to deal  
> > > > with
> > > > such situations.
> > > >
> > > > So in short, i would suggest that we suggest to create an
> > > > international legal advisory board that advises the CC board and  
> > > > CCi.
> > > > Such a board should be small and i would suggest that we make it  
> > > > clear
> > > > that we are not seeking to gain influence on decision making but
> > > > rather want to ensure that the  knowledge persent with the
> > > > international projects is adequately represented when making  
> > > > decisions
> > > > that affect CC on a global level. [another option would be to  
> > > > suggest
> > > > more international representation in the CC-board, but i would  
> > > > prefer
> > > > a separate advisory board of some sorts].
> > > >
> > > > finally i do agree with the remarks that this should coem from as  
> > > > many
> > > > cc project leads as possible (also outside of the EU) and that we
> > > > should suggest to discuss these issues in sapporo.
> > > >
> > > > all the best,
> > > > paul
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Kennisland | Knowledgeland
> > > > t: +31 20 5756720 | m: +31 6 41374687
> > > > www.kennisland.nl | www.knowledgeland.org
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Kennisland | Knowledgeland
> > > t: +31 20 5756720 | m: +31 6 41374687
> > > www.kennisland.nl | www.knowledgeland.org
> > >
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t: +31 20 5756720 | m: +31 6 41374687
www.kennisland.nl | www.knowledgeland.org