Baslinux mailing list

["Samual Acorn" <sam.acorn AT gmail.com>]

On 14/04/06, sindi keesan <keesan AT sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Samual Acorn wrote:
>
> > On 10/04/06, sindi keesan <keesan AT sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
> >> I had FM synthesis and AWE working with my ISA SB sound cards but one of
> >> my motherboards finished dying (the IDE controller card I used to replace
> >> the bad onboard controller stopped working in there, though it works
> >> elsewhere) and I had to replace it with something with one fewer ISA 
> >> slot.
> >
> > try a different psu..
>
> I may have to anyway, since the IDE controller in this computer appears to
> have mostly failed now.  I had to disable UDMA in BIOS to get linux to
> work at all.  I have one PCI IDE controller to try in place of the PCI
> sound card (since the other slots are full of two video cards, modem,
> ethernet and SCSI).
>
> I may give up on this computer and wait for the return of our spare
> working 450MHz computer - an architect friends needed something to run XP
> on - she has to use a data acquisition board for which only XP software
> was written, to analyze various test walls with air conditioning (in a
> heated garage).  In exchange we were given two ISA data acquisition boards
> to play with later.  They work in DOS and there is a linux site on data
> acquisition boards.

a data logger whose software was only written for XP? ... i find that
hard to believe since all XP is - is windows 2000 in 'playskool'
clothing... granted that it has better compatibility with win98
software but if thats the dataloggers reason for needing XP then it
would run on 98 as well... ohh and also... if that is the reason; it
will run on windows 95B (OSR2) too... just install ie6 directx8 and
the usb update (all available from microsoft) and you just turned
win95 into win98....

also take a look at www.reactos.com

>
> > SBLive doesnt have OPL synth or onboard ram for soundfonts... they
> > only work with ALSA if you want midi (system ram is used to hold the
> > soundfont)...
>
> > the 'sb' module is for ISA sb cards... not pci ones... the sblive only
> > has the emu10k1 chip (an upgraded version of the emu 8000 wavetable
> > chip found on AWE cards.. it is however -not- backward compatible)...
> > in other words the sblive uses its 'midi' chip for both midi and
> > wav... its not two seperate chips like the AWE...
>
> Very interesting.  I will save these cards for if I ever have to
> use ALSA.  Has anyone got ALSA working with BL2?
>
> >> The ESS, if I set vol to the maximum with aumix, and turn the speakers up
> >> too, plays wav files.  It does not do AWE.  I cannot insmod opl3, 'opl3
> >> not detected'.  I read something online about it having FM synthesis 
> >> built
> >> into the card, and also something about port conflicts that prevent OPL3
> >> from working, and someone provided a kernel patch written in .c which I 
> >> am
> >> not going to tackle.  Is there some simple way to play midi with esssolo1
> >> cards and OSS?
> >
> > havent messed with any PCI ESS chips... have no info for you on that 
> > one...
> > however it wont do AWE because the only card that can -is- the AWE...
> > no clones/compatibles were ever made... (as far as the emu 8000 chip
> > is concerned anyway.. there are many cards that.. through their
> > drivers.. support the sf2 soundfont format)
>
> At this point I am only trying to play midi files with FM synthesis and to
> an external device, because the older computer hooked up to the electronic
> piano won't play midis in linux, even with an SB16 ISA card (we tried
> two).  It does FM synthesis in DOS but not linux.  I have it jumpered to
> enable joystick, and my kernel supports gameport.

the soundblasters gameport and midi port are electrically seperate...
they just share pins on the same port... think of it like putting two
serial ports on the same port.... they are seperate ports as far as
the computer/software is concerned but the pins are all in the same
connector... installing 'gameport' just lets you use a joystick...

>
> I will take my main computer that is working with the AWE32 card to the
> piano and try that first.  playmidi -e or -a both play to AWE (with
> speakers plugged into line out) on that computer.  Maybe it will also play
> through the gameport.
>
>
> > shouldnt need to set the volume all the way to max just to hear
> > anything... check your speakers... make sure nothing is being shorted
> > out...
>
> The speakers worked fine with SB16 card.  Maybe the ESS card has a bad
> onboard amp.  I have a twin to it but the line in is physically broken.

or a weak onboard amp.... the SB16 has a 4watt amp on its 'speaker
out' connector... even the line level connector on newer sb16s has
more oomph than the average card... try a different set of speakers...


>
> > this should sound the same with -any- card tho i havent tried it;
> >
> > http://timidity.sourceforge.net/
>
> That won't get me external midi playing, and I don't need it if I have
> AWE.

but it'll work if you have neither...

>
>
> >>
> >> I also have one each es1370 and es1371 cards which I have not tried yet.
> >>
> >> If I were lazy, I would replace the internal ISA modem with an external
> >> one and put back the ISA sound card.
> >
> > thats the route i would take...
>
> I may just recycle that computer.  But I need to learn to use PCI sound
> cards since computers are coming with fewer and fewer ISA slots.
> Will try ES1370 and ES1371 some day.
>
> >> What I really want is to play midi files to the electronic piano through
> >> the gameport.  I tried this on my slower test computer but even with two
> >> ISA SB16 cards, one pnp and one jumpered (not using CTCU/CTCM or isapnp,
> >> which I have only needed before for AWE cards) I cannot get linux to play
> >> any sort of midi.  playmidi -r gives a segmentation fault.  playmidi -4 
> >> or
> >> -f gives me back the prompt. (On a computer at another location all three
> >> of these work properly, without CTCU).
>
> > playmidi -r is for realtime note display...
>
> I know.  Why would it segfault?  That leads me to believe there is some
> motherboard incompatibility with linux and sound.

sounds more to me like a bad compile or memory problems... if it
doesnt segfault without using -r then its not sound thats the
problem... its graphics...

>
>   playmidi -4 is for 'four
> > operator' fm synthesis patches (OPL3 chips only) playmidi -f is the
> > default 'two operator' fm synth patches (OPL2 chips)...
>
> Thanks, they both sound like a kazoo to me.  Should the first sound
> better?

playmidi -4 should sound slightly better... the problem is that when
using 4-op there are less channels to use so some notes -will- be
dropped...

btw, the FM synthesis chips were never intended to play general
midi... ill upload some files later to show you what the OPL3 is
really capable of...

>
>   playmidi -e
> > should send note data out of a SB16s midi/joystick port tho i dont
> > give any guarantees on that... (make sure the MPU-401 is set-up...
> > thats the external port)
>
> How would I 'set it up'?
> Do I need to specify io -
> insmod sb ..... mpu_io=330?

its a seperate module; mpu401.o

>
> >> DOS programs play FM synthesized midi.  In DOS or linux if I try to play

forgot about one.... goto www.cubic.org/player download it and the
'gus patches'... regardless of what soundcard you have you will get
wavetable midi...

> >> midi on an external device it looks like something is happening but I 
> >> hear
> >> nothing.
> >
> > make sure that in whatever midi program you are using that the data is
> > being sent to the 'MPU-401'
>
> How would I do that in DOS?  I think I should start with a computer that
> does not segfault with playmidi -r.  I have four DOS programs that should
> play to external midi device now.  That is the only sort of midi they
> play, and there is no sound.

did ctcm set the port up properly? (look at the blaster string) are
the dos programs sending data to the right port? is your keyboard
general midi? or is it just a piano?

>
> >> I have no way to test the cable, which has an optical isolator
> >
> > got a voltmeter? IIRC midi is serial data sent at 38.4kbit (note: it
> > is -not- compatible with rs232[pc serial port])
>
> > http://pinouts.ru/data/MidiIn_pinout.shtml
> > http://pinouts.ru/data/GameportPCMidi_pinout.shtml
>
> Thanks, will try that (on the computer that plays linux FM synthesized
> sound and has a working IDE controller and ISA sound card).
>
>
> >
> > or if you want to make your own converter/cable;
> >
> > http://pinouts.ru/data/pc2midicable_pinout.shtml
>
> We have another diagram for a MIDI cable and the two ICS are locally
> available for only a few dollars total, and we have the plug ends off
> other cables, but someone gave us a midi cable.  I will download this
> diagram too.
>
> > the above has an opti-isolator too... i dont know what the signalling
> > voltages are on either side so youll have to do some guesswork on that
> > one...
> >
>
> >> in the circuit, or the 'MIDI in' on the piano (where the line out works,
> >
> > do you have a simple din patch cable? turn off 'local echo' on the
> > keyboard and press a few keys to make sure the keyboard is quiet...
> > then connect the midi out to the midi in and press a few keys ... see
> > if you get some sound then... if so.. midi in on the keyboard works...
>
> We don't but could maybe improvise something.  I put three other cables
> together to make a midi extension cable (one or more were for apple
> monitors).  That might work.  The piano is elsehwere, can't look now.
> However there is no waht to turn off 'local echo'.  This is an electronic
> piano from 1986, an early Yamaha Clavinova.  If I plug in the headphones
> no sound comes out the large speakers - would that help?

no... plugging in headphones doesnt turn off the internal synth....
turning off local echo would turn the keyboard into a silent
controller.... see if there is -some- way to direct the midi to the
midi out port without the keyboard itself making noise... but not by
plugging in headphones or turning the volume down.... because that
cable trick would act as an external loopback.... to see if the ports
work... sorta like a serial port loopback plug... the midi data would
go out the 'out' port silently then come back in the 'in' port causing
the keyboard to make noise thinking it was getting midi data from
somewhere else...

also... if this keyboard is not 'general midi' compatible you arent
going to get any sound from a computer because its not sending correct
data for the keyboard... there are 0 track (1 track) and 16 track midi
files.... you may need something to do translation to one format or
the other to get the keyboard to work...


>
>
> >> and the line in works but sounds bad), but I should at least be able to
> >> get FM synthesis to work right first, so I switched to this other 
> >> computer
> >> where I can't get any cards to play any midi in any OS.
> >
> > id call it quits on that mobo... (does 'any os' include windows?)
>
> Actually DOS FM synthesis works, linux FM synthesis does not, playmidi -r
> segfaults, and DOS and linux playmidi -e play silently.  Someone returned
> our other spare 200MHz computer because serial and PS/2 ports don't work -
> irrelevant to this purpose.

but those ports use interrupts.... if they arent working right then
you might have some IRQ hiccups... even if you disable the serial
ports and mouse ps2 port the keyboard ps2 port is still working...

>
> We have Windows 98 on a computer - I could try playing external midi with
> it.

choose 'external device' or mpu-401 (i cant remember exactly what it
says) in the multimedia control panel and put a check in the box for
'use preferred devices only' to make sure it uses the external port...


>
> >> To get the DOS programs to stop crashing, I had to set bus speed back 
> >> from
> >> 75 to 66Mhz x 3.  We replaced the 133MHz with a 233MHz AMD cpu, which
> >> apparently does not work properly at 225MHz.  Memtest test 5 gives pages
> >> of errors.  Putting in slower DIMMs did not help.
> >
> > cant help you there.. other than to say 'use only chip-specified
> > speeds/voltages especially bus speeds...'
>
> The 233MHz cpu probably does not like 75MHz bus speeds, but memtest is now
> happy with 3x66MHz.  It was designed for 3.5x.

why not use 3.5 then?

>
>
> >> My partner wants people to know that you can fix clogged nozzles in Epson
> >> Stylus and C80 printers by forcing air through with a syringe.  These are
> >> built into the printer, not the cartridge, so there are lots of free
> >> printers around.  Ghostscript supports the former, as does netpbm in 
> >> mono.
> >
> > wiping the print head with a cottonball dipped in alcohol works too...
>
> Internal printhead?  Some of the nozzles have clogged again now.  I will
> suggest he use alcohol.

just wipe them till they look new.... no stuck-on ink-gunk.... be
prepared to use more than one cotton ball depending on how gummed up
they are... also be prepared to wear the ink for a while (it doesnt
wash off too well)

> We are still printing with Win98 and I hate it -
> every photo I have to uncheck 'fill page' in two boxes, then change 94% to
> 100%, standard to maximum, change all the margins, speed to quality, and
> it keeps reverting to defaults between photos.

windows seems to have cases of amnesia like this... might be the
registry... there is a dos mode program that comes with win98 that can
check the registry for errors... cant remember what its called tho... 
what software are you using to print the photos?

there -is- a windows port of the gimp.... might want to look into it...

also... goto www.annoyances.org and download a program called 'ie-off'
... they will warn you that changes in windows may make the now quite
old ie-off not work properly but it still does.... it will 'gut'
internet explorer out of the shell... makes 98 much nicer to work
with...

also since windows 98 has reached the end of its lifespan goto
www.windizupdate.com (thats not a typo/mispelling on my part... its a
real site) with firefox (not internet explorer)... install the plugin
and you can get security updates and various fixes for win98 and 95..
updates microsoft doesnt care to keep up with... works with other
windows versions too...

>
> >> Did Creative make any PCI SB16 cards?
> >
> > yes but they used ESS chips... so technically they werent SB16
> > cards... they were only sb16 compatible and that was only if the
> > creative dos drivers were installed...
>
> Do you mean first install the DOS drivers before you use them in linux?  I
> have to do this anyway to play AWE (ctcu/ctcm).

have you ever installed a 'vesa tsr' to get a video card to work as
something more than a standard vga in dos? the sb16pci drivers are the
same idea.... they provide a function in dos using virtual interrupts
and various other tricks... remember... linux is its own OS... its not
a shell for dos(like win3.1 and to a lesser extent 9x/me)... the
functionality a vesa tsr or soundcard driver would provide to dos apps
wont do anything for linux.... and in fact... may cause problems...
the less that is in config.sys and autoexec.bat the better for
linux...

now.... ctcm/ctcu is different... what these programs do is search for
a creative labs PnP soundcard and set it up... basically its a
software version of hardware jumpers... just what PnP was intended to
be... no emulation layer is installed... in fact... ctcm/ctcu dont
even stay in memory.. they run... do their thing.. and leave...
leaving the card in a usable state... just as if the card had hardware
jumperes...

look for the linux isapnp tools.... using those you wont even need
ctcm/ctcu....

as far as the sb16pci goes... there are oss modules for linux that
support this card using its -real- chipset... not a software emulation
of another chipset...



>
> Many thanks, Sam.
> _______________________________________________
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> BasLinux AT lists.ibiblio.org
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>


--
--sam
http://mephitus.renamon.org/
"When you've done something right, no one will be sure you've done
anything at all." -- Futurama
--