Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...

b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Biblical Hebrew Forum

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Ken Penner <kpenner AT stfx.ca>
  • To: Belot <dbelot AT bigpond.net.au>, "b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org" <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...
  • Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 21:26:39 -0300

LXX: Kyrios. NT: Kyrios. Vulgate: Dominus.

Ken M. Penner, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Religious Studies
2329 Notre Dame Avenue, 409 Nicholson Tower
St. Francis Xavier University
Antigonish, NS B2G 2W5
Canada
(902)867-2265
kpenner AT stfx.ca




-----Original Message-----
From: b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-hebrew-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Belot
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 6:16 PM
To: Rev. Bryant J. Williams III; Rolf; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...

Could I please ask the question this way , if I lived in the year 500ad , and
I had copy of the LXX and the New Testament and the Vulgate , how would I
read the name of God in these three Bibles .

Would I see YHWH put in brackets in any verses.

doug belot

-----Original Message-----
From: Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 8:28 PM
To: Rolf ; b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...

Dear List,

Thanks Rolf for some of this information. Moderators: Sorry about the length
since I figured you all would want this information to go out ASAP. May it
generate more light than heat.

Considering that the Tetragrammaton is still a sticky issue to deal with
especially regarding its pronunciation, yet, sometimes, scholarship lags
behind the finds in the field especially since it looks like there are
several mss from the DSS that have finally been published. Unfortunately, the
high cost of obtaining them creates problems in itself. Soon they will be on
the Internet so every person can see them, but in the meantime....

The items below may not answer all the questions, and, in fact, create more,
but what needs to done is ask the "right" question. If one asks the wrong
question, then one will get the wrong answer.

See the following from http://awilum.com/?p=640. Please note the information
from the Comments section of Edward Gallagher, Adam McCollum and Nick
Batchelor. Furthermore, the dissertation of F.S. Shaw, "The Earliest
Non-mystical Jewish Use of Iαω," 2002, University of Cincinnati, is about to
be published by Peeters this year 2013, so it may not be available soon. See
notice here: http://rave.ohiolink.edu/etdc/view?acc_num=ucin1014323679 and
here: http://www.peeters-leuven.be/boekoverz_print.asp?nr=9332.

See John Hobbins,
http://ancienthebrewpoetry.typepad.com/ancient_hebrew_poetry/2009/05/the-splendid-iao-the-identification-of-helios-with-iao-the-god-of-the-jews.html.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

d Gallagher says:
August 13, 2008 at 11:59 am
Charles,
Sorry for the long response. I feel a need to provide bibliography. I hope
that provides defense enough for the length of my comment.

As far as I am aware, only one extant manuscript uses the Greek
transliteration IAO for the Name—4QLXXLevb, published in DJD 9, and dated
to the first century BCE. Codex Marchalianus (6th cent. CE) has this reading
in the margin (see Rahlfs, Verzeichnis der griechischen Handschriften des
Alten Testaments, I.1 [2004], 346–350). The Hexaplaric versions do not
contain this transliteration, but apparently retain the Hebrew word in
Aramaic script, as in the Mercati fragments of the Hexapla, or perhaps,
originally, in paleo-Hebrew script, as several other early LXX (revised)
manuscripts do, e.g. the Greek Minor Prophets scroll from Nahal Hever.

Despite the paucity of attestation of IAO in manuscripts of the Greek OT, it
is clear that this was a relatively well-known pronunciation of the Name
among Greek writers. See P.W. Skehan, “The Divine Name at Qumran, in the
Masada Scroll, and in the Septuagint,” BIOSCS 13 (1980): 14–44, who cites
(p. 29), inter alios, Diodorus Siculus (1st cent. BCE) and Origen.

This evidence has led none other than Emanuel Tov to conclude that IAO was
the original LXX reading for the Divine Name, instead of kyrios. See his
“The Greek Biblical Texts from the Judean Desert,” in S. McKendrick and
O.A. O’Sullivan (eds.), The Bible as Book: The Transmission of the Greek
Text (New Castle, DE: Oak Knoll Press, 2003), 97–122 (112–114).

Probably the most developed explication of this view is a dissertation at the
University of Cincinnati by Frank Shaw (2002), for which Prof. Kamesar served
as a reader. It is called “The Earliest Non-Mystical Jewish Use of Iaw.”

I myself am not convinced that IAO was the original LXX reading, and I think
Martin Rösel makes a pretty good case against it: “The Reading and
Translation of the Divine Name in the Masoretic Tradition and the Greek
Pentateuch,” JSOT 31 (2007): 411–428 (417–419).

At any rate, it does seem clear that the reading IAO was a known quantity in
the first century, at least in Jewish circles familiar with the Greek
biblical tradition.

Adam McCollum says:

August 14, 2008 at 1:15 am
In addition to Mr. Gallagher’s learned comments, §§20-21 of Metzger’s
«Mss. of the Greek Bible» where he treats Greek OT mss. that have some form
of Hebrew or Aramaic script for the tetragrammaton and the so-called nomina
sacra of Greek OT (and other) mss. deserve to be mentioned in this
discussion. The former instances do not, however, in and of themselves offer
any proof as to how these occurrences were actually read (aloud, of course),
either as some iteration of YHWH or as kyrios. Metzger’s discussion includes
many bibliographic references and a few interesting patristic comments on the
matter here under discussion.

Nick Batchelor says:

March 5, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Here is a list of LXX versions that I am presently aware of that contain the
Tetragrammaton:
• 4Q LXX Levb.
• Ambrosiano O 39 sup.
• Aq Burkitt.
• Aq Taylor.
• LXX IEJ 12.
• LXX P. Fouad Inv. 266.
• LXX P. Oxy. VII.1007.
• LXX VTS 10a.
• LXX VTS 10b.
• Sym. P. Vindob. G. 39777.

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Volume 2, page
512) says: “Recent textual discoveries cast doubt on the idea that the
compilers of the LXX [Septuagint] translated the tetragrammaton YHWH by
kyrios. The oldest LXX MSS (fragments) now available to us have the
tetragrammaton written in Heb[rew] characters in the G[ree]k text. This
custom was retained by later Jewish translators of the O[ld] T[estament] in
the first centuries A.D.”

Lastly, as Angie’s comment revealed, “Why is God’s name a bid deal?” As her
if her name means much to her. What if we substituted it for wife, woman,
sister, how would SHE feel if everyone stopped using her name? The Scriptures
unite to tell us that God wants us to know and use his name. He invites us to
do so. Can we think of anyone we have a close relationship whose name we do
not know or use? Think it through people.

Respectfully submitted,

Nick Batchelor
Florence, Italy

_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew



Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page