Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Antonio Garcia <garcia.secretariagh.antonio1 AT gmail.com>]

       Hi everybody:

      Pere Porta don´t know the structure of psalms, and anybody has sent on
this thread the arxive of psalm 31.

      This is my arxive of the structured psalm 30, that I could seen in a
book of L. Alonso Schökel.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9674/psalm30cantillationcomp.jpg

      The position of words in this composition could help to understand the
differents meanings, and not only their ketib.

      I think we need to have the structure of all psalm 31, to opine with
more knowledge about.



      Thanks in advance and kind regards. Antonio Garcia Hurtado.





2010/10/19 Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>

> >
> >
> >>>> (PP) Patterns consisting of prefix M- and two root letters are always
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>> 1. Either Hiph'il Participles as in Ez 33:32; Jr 21:4; Pr 17:4...
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> (KR) What makes you think they are all hiphils? Tradition? Masoretic
> >>> points?
> >>>
> >>>
> >> (PP)
> >>
> >> I say that (disregarding of vowel points), a Hebrew word that consists
> of
> >> [M + two root consonants] (as it would be the case for M'D in your
> >> viewpoint) cannot be a Pi'el Participle.
> >>
> >
> > (KR) Why? On what basis is this claim made?
> >
> >>
> >>
> > (PP) I have worked for many years (since 1990) to build up a list of as
> many as possible of Hebrew patterns or structures.
> My present list consists of about nine thousand (9,000) patterns with, of
> course, the corresponding explanation.
>
> In this sense I have some authority to confirm that the pattern or
> structure
> (M + two root consonants) is NEVER a Piel Participle.
>
>
>
> >   /KR)
> >> That was one of the threads in my discussion with Randall Buth on the
> verb
> >> NGD. In looking at all the occurrences, some look like hophals, some
> piels,
> >> some puals, while he claimed all were hiphils.
> >>
> >
> >>
> > (PP) Unfortunately I did not participate in this discussion.
>
> >    .................
> >>
> >
>
> >    In a more general way: I say that this structure: M + TWO root
> >> consonants is NEVER a Piel Participle in the practice of the Hebrew
> >> language.
> >>
> >
> > (KR) How do you know? What data are you using?
> >
> >>
> >>
> > (PP) Within the aforementioned list of 9,000 patterns or structures there
> are eleven patterns (only eleven, 11) consisting of (M + two root
> consonants).
> Now, NONE is a Piel Participle.
> Accepting that my study has been a deep one (so I hope!), it is quite
> logical to think that indeed NO pattern (M + two root consonants) is a Piel
> Participle.
>
>
> >    (PP) By the way, Karl, are you creating a list of these words?).
> >>
> >
> > (KR) No, I’n not making a list. First and foremost, when I sit down to
> read
> > from Tanakh, I read an unpointed text, so usually I don’t know when I
> read
> > it using different points.
> >
> > There are a few exceptions, one being Isaiah 30:14 where the text reminds
> > me of blacksmithing (which I have done) and not of pottery (which I have
> > studied). But most of the time I don’t know.
> >
> >>
>
> >     (PP) I think it would be worthwhile to create this list, Karl. I
> mean:
> >>>> a list of those words in the Bible that could be pointed in a way
> other than
> >>>> the masoretic way. And at a time showing how this different pointing
>  would
> >>>> give a meaning or an understanding of the text that is different from
> that
> >>>> which has been currently accepted.
> >>>>
> >>> I admit that this is a work. yes. But... as you're a lexicographer, why
> not to do a little more work or effort to get such a list?
> I think this would result in a QUITE interesting work for the whole of the
> Bible world (both scholars and -within certain limitations-  also
> non-scholars).
> Of course it could become an interesting work to publish...
>
>
> Hearty,
>
>
>
> >
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> Pere Porta
> >>>> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Karl W. Randolph.
> >
> >
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