Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>]

 [Steve Miller] Pere, thanks for sharing that. I did not know it. Yes, I
agree. Translating it as "Lords" would not make sense.

(SM) I still have the question about "my". The yod suffix makes it "my Lord"
rather than just "Lord". The yod was not added by the Masoretes. Why then is
it not always translated "my Lord"? It seems to me that "my Lord" would fit
just about all uses. But it is only translated "my Lord" in few places, like
in Ps 16:2 where the context almost demands it. Even the LXX rarely
translates it as "my Lord".

But if the word was written, adoni, with a chirik instead of a kamatz under
the nun, then it would be consistently translated, my lord.
(PP)

"adoni" appears, methinks, 195 times in the Bible. Maybe you should check
every one of these items (I haven't the time to do it now).
But in a general way, as I said, "adoni" is for humans while "adonay" is for
God ---> plural of majesty.
You have Gn 24:27, where "adoni" is found three times and every time it
concern a human.
In Gn 18:3 we have "adonay" addressed to an individual -this "individual" is
God either clearly understood or in the writer's background thought- while
in a general way, as I said, this is used to address God -- plural of
Majesty.  But strictly speaking and from a grammar viewpoint "adonay" means
"my lords", even humans -- look at Gn 19:2,4.
It is something like in Gn 1:26,3 where God speaks in the plural: NA(.A&EH,
"let us make". But this does not mean that God considers himself a plural
(in fact I think some christians thought that this verse pointed out to a
"trinity" of persons within God): this is again a plural of Majesty.
I repeat again, Steve: this is the same thing as it happens with today
Kings, the Pope... "We, Us", referring to themselves... Every king, the Pope
is an indivual and not a group or collective ---- but they speak using the
plural "We", "Us" ----> plural of Majesty.

[Beside this, be aware that some, several inconsistencies are found in the
Hebrew Bible...]

Do you feel I'm right?

Pere Porta
(Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)






>  >  (SM) Why is the the word adonai with a kamatz under the nun translated
> as
> > "the
> > Lord" and not "my Lord" in Ps 22:31 (as well as most other places)?
> > The word has the 1st person singular suffix.
> > The only exception I have seen is Goldingay, who translates it as "my
> > Lord".
> > (PP)
> > Strictly speaking the word in Ps 22:31 means "my lords".
> > Look here: www.oham.net/out/S-t/S-t0705p.html
> > For "my lord" -------> Gn 31:35 (7th word)
> > Look at www.oham.net/out/S-t/S-t0702.html
> >
> > But in order to distinguish divine reference from human, Massoretes often
> > used this plural ending to say "(the) Lord" (= God): the plural ending is
> > an
> > intensive plural of rank and no more a suffix meaning "my".
> > This is called the "plural of majesty".
> > Even today "We" is sometimes used by rank persons (kings, the Pope...:
> > "*nos
> > *" -the Latin for "we" or "us"-...) who strictly speaking are an
> > individual
> > and not a collective.
> >
> >
> > (SM) Why is the same word in Ps 16:2 universally translated as "my Lord"?
> > (PP)
> > Because the sense requires this translation "my Lord" though the strict
> > meaning is again "my lords".
> > Someone addresses to Yahweh and says to him: "You are my Lord". "You are
> > my
> > Lord*s*" would not make sense.
> >
> > Do you agree?
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Pere Porta
> > (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)
> >
>