Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Steve Miller" <smille10 AT sbcglobal.net>]

> From: Pere Porta
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 12:04 AM
> To: steve AT voiceinwilderness.info
> Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] adonai "my Lord" or "the Lord"
> 
>  [Steve Miller] Pere, thanks for sharing that. I did not know it. Yes, I
> agree. Translating it as "Lords" would not make sense.
> 
> (SM) I still have the question about "my". The yod suffix makes it "my
> Lord"
> rather than just "Lord". The yod was not added by the Masoretes. Why then
> is
> it not always translated "my Lord"? It seems to me that "my Lord" would
> fit
> just about all uses. But it is only translated "my Lord" in few places,
> like
> in Ps 16:2 where the context almost demands it. Even the LXX rarely
> translates it as "my Lord".
> 
> But if the word was written, adoni, with a chirik instead of a kamatz
> under
> the nun, then it would be consistently translated, my lord.

> (PP)
> 
> "adoni" appears, methinks, 195 times in the Bible. Maybe you should check
> every one of these items (I haven't the time to do it now).
> But in a general way, as I said, "adoni" is for humans while "adonay" is
> for
> God ---> plural of majesty.
> You have Gn 24:27, where "adoni" is found three times and every time it
> concern a human.
> In Gn 18:3 we have "adonay" addressed to an individual -this "individual"
> is
> God either clearly understood or in the writer's background thought- while
> in a general way, as I said, this is used to address God -- plural of
> Majesty.  But strictly speaking and from a grammar viewpoint "adonay"
> means
> "my lords", even humans -- look at Gn 19:2,4.
> It is something like in Gn 1:26,3 where God speaks in the plural:
> NA(.A&EH,
> "let us make". But this does not mean that God considers himself a plural
> (in fact I think some christians thought that this verse pointed out to a
> "trinity" of persons within God): this is again a plural of Majesty.
> I repeat again, Steve: this is the same thing as it happens with today
> Kings, the Pope... "We, Us", referring to themselves... Every king, the
> Pope
> is an indivual and not a group or collective ---- but they speak using the
> plural "We", "Us" ----> plural of Majesty.
> 
> [Beside this, be aware that some, several inconsistencies are found in the
> Hebrew Bible...]
> 
> Do you feel I'm right?
> 
> Pere Porta
> (Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain)

[Steve Miller] Pere,
>From what you had explained previously, I understood that the Masoretes
voweled adoni to refer to a human or angel lord and adonai to refer to God.
So I would expect practically all uses of adoni to refer persons whom the
Masoretes understood were angels or men. 
I can see why. In the synagogue the people davening would be reading the
Bible in Hebrew as fast as they could, and they would bow their heads every
time they read the name of God. They wouldn't want to mistakenly bow their
head to a man or an angel. Elohim can refer to angels or a human judge also,
but the usage is rare.

If Gen 1:26 was a "royal we", then I would expect to find this "royal we"
somewhere else in the Bible referring to royalty. If no such "royal we"
exists in the Bible, then I consider this proof that the "royal we"
interpretation of Gen 1:26 is wrong. I would not try to use traditions of
modern gentile kings and popes to explain the Bible, but use the Bible
itself. It may be that the Victorian kings and popes got their tradition
from Gen 1:26. 

Sincerely,
-Steve Miller
Detroit
www.voiceInWilderness.info
They shall come, and they shall declare
to a people to be born,
reveal His righteousness.
This deed which the Lord has done
they'll retell to everyone
that He may all peoples bless. (Psalm 22:31)