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  • From: David Kummerow <farmerjoeblo AT hotmail.com>
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] b-hebrew Uncancellable meaning and Hebrew verbs
  • Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 08:43:16 +1000


Hi Karl,

By "standard", I was referring to use of the lexeme in my own use and what I hear around me. It is standard to hear such "plod" examples. At the end of the day, you still must reckon with such data. Like I've repeatedly asked: what is the uncancellable meaning/semantics of "plod" for such people whose examples I listed are entirely acceptable? At some point, the "uncancellable meaning" of "plod" that existed in your own so-called "international standard English" actually was cancelled -- and these days now to the point that the use does not sound "weird", is not poetic, is not some extreme use, etc. How can this occur if semantics is said to be uncancellable meaning? And what is the uncancellable meaning that is now the result? What is the "uncancellable meaning" of "plod" across the examples I gave?

By the way, adding "slow" to plod is not redundant for me in example (2) I gave, it just specifies that the "plodding" action is "slow" rather than "fast". it is unnecessary to specify it in (3).

Regards,
David Kummerow.


David:

We are not talking about your dialect, wherever it comes from, rather
we are talking about international standard English used for
international communications, which, incidentally, has the same
meaning as in the variety of English that I grew up with, namely upper
Midwest U.S. English.
And I backed up my claim with an international list of reference works.

(I asked my son, who grew up here on the left coast, if “plod quickly”
made sense: he laughed and said it is an oxymoron, as slowness is a
necessary part of “plod”. So apparently your use is dialectal,
non-standard and as of yet not a sign of changing use in standard
English.)

You misrepresent Rolf, me and others on this list when we use
“uncancellable meaning”, for none of us insists that an uncancellable
meaning must cross the boundary from a standard use of a language to a
dialectal, non-standard use. You are wrong to insist that it must in
order for the concept to be valid.

Now back to Biblical Hebrew: during the time it was written, from
about 1400–400 BC, it remained remarkably stable, with almost no
change in lexicography and grammar. There are changes in literary
style that are recognizable, but we don’t find lexicographic (words
that change meanings) nor grammar changes. So for the Hebrew used
within that period, it is possible that there were uncancellable
meanings that were valid neither for cognate languages such as
Aramaic, nor for Mishnaic and later Hebrews. The question is, did Rolf
correctly identify those uncancellable meanings?

Karl W. Randolph.

Ps: adding “slow” to “plod” is like a double negative in koiné Greek,
making something already slow even slower.





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