Public SourceMage Discussion List

[Bor Kraljič <pyrobor AT ver.si>]

On 24. MES 2011 13:09:57 Remko van der Vossen wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 10:52:21AM +0200, Bor Kraljič wrote:
> > On 24. MES 2011 10:42:49 Remko van der Vossen wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 10:33:56AM +0200, Jaka Kranjc wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday 24 of August 2011 10:20:42 Remko van der Vossen wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 11:40:02PM +0200, Jaka Kranjc wrote:
> > > > > > We should also rename the old kde spells to kde3 and the
> > > > > > kde4 to plain kde (later) — upstream is already
> > > > > > dreaming about kde5, so it is best to lose the version
> > > > > > suffix for the latest branch or we'll rerun into this
> > > > > > issue each major release.
> > > > >
> > > > > First off, let me say that I don't use KDE, or any DE for
> > > > > that matter as most of you will know. However, I'd still
> > > > > like to add my 2 cents.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it wise to rename all kde4 spells to kde? We'll only get
> > > > > the same problems upon the next KDE release. When it comes
> > > > > to things like KDE and gnome it's more like every new major
> > > > > version is a completely new project, so why not treat it as
> > > > > such. We could have the kde spell simply be a profile spell
> > > > > that lets the user choose between any versions we have
> > > > > available currently, like we do for instance with the ruby
> > > > > profile spell and the ruby-1.8 and ruby-1.9 spells.
> > > >
> > > > Ruby is just one spell, there'd need to be a dozen profiles for
> > > > kde.
> > >
> > > I don't think so, it'd only need to be done for the main kde profile
> > > spells, once it's installed people can figure out they need
> > > kde#-$app,
> > > we don't treat our users as idiots as far as I am aware...
> >
> > For me it came to simple question. WILL WE SUPPORT KDE3? (and if yes,
> > WHO will support it. It won't be me.) It isn't supported by upstream.
> > qt3 (qt-x11) that is needed for kde3 isn't supported by upstream. So
> > why should we support kde3? ATM we don't even have the information if
> > kde3 compiles with current version of gcc.
> >
> > If we decide not to support kde3 and remove it from grimoire we avoid
> > problems with renaming. Since after a while it would be quite easy to
> > rename kde4 to kde and continue without suffix. But somehow I don't
> > think we will agree on removal of kde3. Since from unknown reason we
> > REALLY like having VERY old spells in grimoire for which we don't even
> > know if they compile.
> I'm not at all arguing for or against removal of KDE3, I'm saying,
> whatever happens, I think it'd be better to just keep kde4-* named
> kde4-* and not rename the whole shebang to kde-*, doing so may only
> serve to cause us trouble.
>
> One such scenario, if we decide to remove KDE3, we should not deprecate
> the spells, but just outright remove them from grimoire and inform the
> users. That way people who have it installed will not lose it, but will
> be informed that we no longer support it and there will never be an
> upgrade, hopefully urging them to upgrade to KDE4, or perhaps something
> even better. ;)
I agree with you that outright remove is better than deprecation.

>
> However, were we to later rename the kde4-* spells to kde-* we'd destroy
> this scenario as people would have installed KDE3 software magically and
> incompatibly upgraded to KDE4 software because the spell names were the
> same.
>
> The other way, i.e. keeping KDE3 and renaming the kde-* spells to
> kde3-*, then no delay between the kde -> kde3 and kde4 -> kde renames is
> going to be enough, there will always be people who will skip a number
> of stables for whatever reason, perhaps simply because they installed
> from iso, cast KDE from unupdated grimoire and then update to latest
> stable grim. Stuff'd break.
>
> To guard against these kinds of things we should add code to each and
> every kde4-* -> kde-* renamed spell to check whether the spell is
> already installed and if so, if it's a version from KDE3, abort the
> cast. In other words, a crap load of work to do it right.
I think such code is almost inevitable...  Sooner or later there is bound to
be such problem if we do any renaming.
>
> If on the other hand we simply keey kde4-* be kde4-* we have no such
> issues, and we will never have such issues in the future if we do the
> same with 5, 6, 7, etc.
For me names of the kde spells is not the mayor problem. But where kde4 is
installed. But discussion leaded also to other things which also really need
discussion and some common guidelines that could be used in the future.
>
> Sorry for the rant,
>
> Remko.

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