permaculture

["Pete Gasper, Gasper Family Farm" <farmer1@gasperfarm.com>]

I think this is a thread worthy of discussion, both the impermanence of 
culture aspects the the socio-political aspects.

Personally I always saw permanent [agri]culture in a 7th generation/40 
centuries sense. A culture and a living system that was long long term 
sustainable. At its fundamental basis it was capable of running till the sun 
ran out. Yes the culture will adapt and change, and indeed it has to be 
adaptable survive changing circumstances (weather, people movements, etc) or 
its not capable of permanence. But is it long term ecologically, 
sociologically sustainable? Too many food production systems are based on 
mining the soil, to many societies revolve around parasitic systems and 
exponential growth patterns while familial social structures devolve into 
forms which cannot last. None of this is sustainable.

So I don't have a problem with this aspect of permanent culture.

What I do have a problem is the way the third ethic is treated like the 
black sheep of the system, little used, with conflicting approaches and 
definitions and too often bogged down with dead end political demogogery.

I also have a problem with how its advocates pretend to be designing 
'permanent culture' but they expressly leave out that major aspect of 
culture in virtually all human societies: religion/spirituality. Not only 
does history demonstrate it is an inviolate part of culture, getting it 
wrong can doom the culture. It would seem unwise therefore to ignore this 
part if we claim to design culture of any sort.

Now this is not to advocate for any particular expression of this, just to 
say it is insane not to recognize it as part of culture and incorporate it, 
even if that means simply demonstrating how permaculture fits into the 
native culture/religion of the people (as indeed it must if both the 
religion and permaculture are true or have aspects of truth).

One other thought on the Mexican situation. I do not at all blame you for 
seeking to get out. But there is a lesson to be considered from Rwanda which 
I was told once. When the genocide occurred some of the western missionaries 
fled for safety, and some stayed in solidarity with the people they had 
claimed they were their to help. Basically, they proved whether they were 
one of them or not. After the dust cleared the former where disrearded and 
the later, who toughed it out and did much good to help the people in hard 
times were highly regarded and flourished. This is not to say that the 
former didn't send their children/wives away. But if permaculture is really 
the solution to our problems it must be so in good times and ill.

But again, I know little of your situation and would not think any the less 
of you if you get out for your safety. Just something to ponder.

Pete

On 03/02/2014 09:47 PM, Holger Hieronimi wrote:
> Hello all-
> saludos desde México
>
> I wonder how PC Activists respond to one of the most interesting
> paradoxes in Permaculture, expressed in the very name. I ask you:
>
> How can we promote Permaculture, presented as a contraction of
> "permanent culture" (originally permanent agriculture),
> knowing that in the universe there is one basic fact (maybe even law):
> NOTHING IS PERMANENT
> ???
>
> More importantly: Nothing is more impermanent than culture. We all know
> that culture is subject of constant change&  adaption to changing
> circumstances
>
> I think, this is an interesting contradiction, best expressed in David
> Holmgens 12th design principle: "Creatively use and respond to change"
>
> Its not only that I`m involved somewhat in Zen practice... its a
> constant experience all PC designers&  practitioners have, working with
> nature-
> Now, with the reality of climate change, and all the other political,
> economic and cultural changes happening right now in the world we`re
> living in-
> change is more up to date than never
>
> However, its also a recent experience I have made in our PermaCulture
> project:
> For 12 years now, we have been developing a site in Michoacán/ México
> with PC Principles (see documentation of our work, with fotos and
> comentary - in spanish- :
> http://www.tierramor.org/GranjaTierramor/granjatierramor.htm#linx).
> Now it seems that we have to leave the site for political, economic&
> security reasons: In thos very moment, our state is in the focus of the
> drug war, mainly fuelled by US dollars&  arms...difficult to do courses
> or whatever in this environment-
> Allthough our site, better known as "Granja Tierramor" (together with
> the whole project), has been, for years now , an important demonstration
> and learning site for permaculture principles&  practices, it seems that
> we`ll have to leave the place soon.
> Things have been changing rapidly here...too fast, it seems, for us to
> respond creatively-
>
> Nothing is permanent!
> Not even permaculture....
> Maybe we should call it "ChangeCulture"?