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  • From: "Pete Gasper, Gasper Family Farm" <farmer1@gasperfarm.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Impermanence & permaculture
  • Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2014 18:41:52 -0600

I think this is a thread worthy of discussion, both the impermanence of culture aspects the the socio-political aspects.

Personally I always saw permanent [agri]culture in a 7th generation/40 centuries sense. A culture and a living system that was long long term sustainable. At its fundamental basis it was capable of running till the sun ran out. Yes the culture will adapt and change, and indeed it has to be adaptable survive changing circumstances (weather, people movements, etc) or its not capable of permanence. But is it long term ecologically, sociologically sustainable? Too many food production systems are based on mining the soil, to many societies revolve around parasitic systems and exponential growth patterns while familial social structures devolve into forms which cannot last. None of this is sustainable.

So I don't have a problem with this aspect of permanent culture.

What I do have a problem is the way the third ethic is treated like the black sheep of the system, little used, with conflicting approaches and definitions and too often bogged down with dead end political demogogery.

I also have a problem with how its advocates pretend to be designing 'permanent culture' but they expressly leave out that major aspect of culture in virtually all human societies: religion/spirituality. Not only does history demonstrate it is an inviolate part of culture, getting it wrong can doom the culture. It would seem unwise therefore to ignore this part if we claim to design culture of any sort.

Now this is not to advocate for any particular expression of this, just to say it is insane not to recognize it as part of culture and incorporate it, even if that means simply demonstrating how permaculture fits into the native culture/religion of the people (as indeed it must if both the religion and permaculture are true or have aspects of truth).

One other thought on the Mexican situation. I do not at all blame you for seeking to get out. But there is a lesson to be considered from Rwanda which I was told once. When the genocide occurred some of the western missionaries fled for safety, and some stayed in solidarity with the people they had claimed they were their to help. Basically, they proved whether they were one of them or not. After the dust cleared the former where disrearded and the later, who toughed it out and did much good to help the people in hard times were highly regarded and flourished. This is not to say that the former didn't send their children/wives away. But if permaculture is really the solution to our problems it must be so in good times and ill.

But again, I know little of your situation and would not think any the less of you if you get out for your safety. Just something to ponder.

Pete

On 03/02/2014 09:47 PM, Holger Hieronimi wrote:
Hello all-
saludos desde México

I wonder how PC Activists respond to one of the most interesting
paradoxes in Permaculture, expressed in the very name. I ask you:

How can we promote Permaculture, presented as a contraction of
"permanent culture" (originally permanent agriculture),
knowing that in the universe there is one basic fact (maybe even law):
NOTHING IS PERMANENT
???

More importantly: Nothing is more impermanent than culture. We all know
that culture is subject of constant change& adaption to changing
circumstances

I think, this is an interesting contradiction, best expressed in David
Holmgens 12th design principle: "Creatively use and respond to change"

Its not only that I`m involved somewhat in Zen practice... its a
constant experience all PC designers& practitioners have, working with
nature-
Now, with the reality of climate change, and all the other political,
economic and cultural changes happening right now in the world we`re
living in-
change is more up to date than never

However, its also a recent experience I have made in our PermaCulture
project:
For 12 years now, we have been developing a site in Michoacán/ México
with PC Principles (see documentation of our work, with fotos and
comentary - in spanish- :
http://www.tierramor.org/GranjaTierramor/granjatierramor.htm#linx).
Now it seems that we have to leave the site for political, economic&
security reasons: In thos very moment, our state is in the focus of the
drug war, mainly fuelled by US dollars& arms...difficult to do courses
or whatever in this environment-
Allthough our site, better known as "Granja Tierramor" (together with
the whole project), has been, for years now , an important demonstration
and learning site for permaculture principles& practices, it seems that
we`ll have to leave the place soon.
Things have been changing rapidly here...too fast, it seems, for us to
respond creatively-

Nothing is permanent!
Not even permaculture....
Maybe we should call it "ChangeCulture"?





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