permaculture

[rafter sass ferguson <liberationecology@gmail.com>]

My whole argument is that we *do* need to talk about capitalism, and that
we need a clear definition of capitalism in order to do that effectively.

To re-quote (from the article) Emily Kawano's response to me, when I
questioned whether we should talk about capitalism in the Financial
Permaculture course:

> "I]t is critical for organizers/practitioners to have a clear eyed
> systemic analysis of capitalism so we can build towards systemic
> transformation *instead of lovely but isolated practices.* I completely
> agree that there’s a lot of smoke and obfuscation [about the meaning of
> capitalism] – but that’s a problem.”


She said it better than I ever could. Are we looking for systemic
transformation, or beautiful gestures?

To rephrase my question to Chris - which I hope came across as friendly,
because that's definitely my intention!

 - In the article I posted, I introduced the "5 elements" definition of
capitalism, in long use by the Center for Popular Economics.
(If anyone has questions about the meaning of those 5 terms, please voice
them! I haven't heard any yet.)
What Chris described doesn't seem like it maps onto those elements:
*• private ownership of means of production:* modest, but sure
*• wage labor*: very little!
*• production for sale, not use:* Chris is describing mostly production for
sale, so sure. But I bet he's doing a ton of production for use alongside
that.
*• maximizing profit:* clearly maximizing multiple goals, not just profit!
*• market exchange:* barely! social relationships are clearly mediating
exchange as much or more than markets

So for me, what Chris described is a great example of entrepreneurship (and
sounds delicious!), but is *not* an example of capitalism.
I want to be clear that by opposing capitalism, we *don't *have to oppose
what Chris is doing.

If Chris wants to scale up and become a BBQ tycoon - then the question of
institutional structure comes in. Then we can say: Oy, Chris - have you
thought about making your farm-to-table BBQ empire a worker coop?

warmly,
rafter








On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 7:03 PM, Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:

> We could spend a long time discussing the definitions of capitalism, other
> forms of "ism", solidarity, and many other economic concepts. And maybe not
> ever find agreement (been there, done that). Rafter, may I suggest that it
> might be helpful for you to include a glossary in your article, defining
> key terms as you are referring to them in the article? Then we have a clear
> point from which to begin an intelligent discussion.
>
>  I am personally very interested in documenting what works, meaning, what
> has demonstrably improved people's lives and what has regenerated
> ecosystems. From what I've observed, it is not one-size-fits-all by any
> means. I know people who own property and the means of production who have
> accomplished significantly wonderful things in the realms of caring for
> earth and people and fair share, and I've also see that with cooperatives,
> and the use of the "commons."  The common denominator in all of those
> successful projects was at least one person who is dedicated to stewarding
> that piece of land or project and who really assumes responsibility for it,
> and is willing and able to spend the time observing the system and becoming
> educated enough to be competent at regenerating it rather than degrading it
> further. And who is willing to accept feedback and self-regulate
> accordingly.
>
> Koreen Brennan
>
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: rafter sass ferguson <liberationecology@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Confronting the Context: Permaculture and
> Capitalism
>
>
> How do you define capitalism such that what you're describing qualifies?
>
> That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.
>
> On Sunday, September 15, 2013, christopher nesbitt wrote:
>
> > I think an example is that I own a farm. Among the over 600 species I
> > manage, I grow pineapples. I cannot sell them in season as the market is
> > flooded. I can process them for the off season, by making jams and
> jellies,
> > and then harass my friends to buy the pineapple jam from me around
> > Christmas, (which I do, literally going door to door selling my jam to my
> > friends, hahaha). That is "business" and is an entrepreneurial
> enterprise.
> > While I bought the jars from the government of Belize at a subsidized
> > wholesale price, it is not capital intensive, and value adds my
> production.
> > I own the means of labour (do most of the work myself), and the canning
> > equipment didn't cost much.
> >
> > I also sell piglets and people buy them. I had to buy 4 pigs and build a
> > piggery for them, and all of that sent me back about USD800. I have sold
> or
> > traded 50 piglets at either USD25 each or a trade of comparable value,
> > which grossed me the equivalent of USD1250. I netted USD450, minus the
> two
> > years of feeding them excess from the farm, including the skins and
> hearts
> > of the pineapples I planted. I then use my pig manure to make great
> compost
> > and apply that to my pineapple and tree crops, getting spectacular growth
> > rates. Since most of the pig food comes from trees, anyway, this is a
> good
> > way to cycle the nutrients back to the farm, while also making some
> money.
> >
> > I will be fattening up three sows for the next four months, and then
> > BBQ'ing them at the Saturday market, and value adding the value of the
> pork
> > meat. Its all profit since I do not eat pork. pork, a delicacy in Maya
> > communities, sells for USD1.75 a pound. One pound of pork can make two
> BBQ
> > plates, and sells for USD3.50 with some tortilla and beans. I have to
> share
> > some of the money with someone who makes BBQ since that is not one of my
> > skills. He is an entrepreneur, and built the BBQ device from an old
> propane
> > tank, and learned the skill set of making BBQ.
> >
> > In strict senses, that is both capitalism and entrepreneurial.
> >
> >
> > _____________________________
> > Christopher Nesbitt
> >
> > Maya Mountain Research Farm
> > San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
> > PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
> > BELIZE,
> > Central America
> >
> > Country code 501-630-4386
> >
> > www.mmrfbz.org
> > www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sep 15, 2013, at 1:58 PM, rafter sass ferguson wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Scott,
> > >
> > > I think the article I linked to would probably answer your question.
> But
> > in
> > > case you don't feel like reading it, here you go:
> > >
> > > I'm borrowing the definition of capitalism that has been used for the
> > last
> > > 30 years by the Center for Popular Economics. Capitalism is a
> > > political-economic system characterized overwhelmingly by these 5
> > elements:
> > > (1) Private ownership of the means of production
> > > (2) Wage labor (i.e. selling your labor to an owner)
> > > (3) Production for sale (not for use)
> > > (4) Market exchange (as the central mechanism for making allocation
> > > decisions)
> > > (5) Profit maximization (as the central mechanisms for making
> production
> > > decisions)
> > >
> > > I'm using the term entrepreneurial enterprise to refer to people taking
> > > risks with their resources to try and make a living as their own boss
> (or
> > > co-boss with their colleagues) - to try and turn their big ideas and
> > > ambition into a livelihood.
> > >
> > > Hope that clarifies things.
> > >
> > > Warmly,
> > > Rafter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> Before we start the conversation I would like to know what is the
> > >> difference
> > >> in the dichotomy you present "entrepreneurial enterprise" and
> > >> "...capitalism"??
> > >>
> > >> Scott
> > >>
> > >> "To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> > >> obsolete"  Buckminster Fuller
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of rafter
> > sass
> > >> ferguson
> > >> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 3:11 PM
> > >> To: NE PC Listserv; permaculture; permaculture
> > >> Subject: [permaculture] Confronting the Context: Permaculture and
> > >> Capitalism
> > >>
> > >> Here's hoping for some *new* conversations about capitalism and
> > >> permaculture - because we've heard all the old ones enough times by
> > now...
> > >>
> > >> So let's sound the funeral dirge for that ol' smoke 'n' mirrors that
> > says
> > >> we have to choose between *entrepreneurial enterprise* and *opposing,
> > >> undermining, and replacing capitalism.*
> > >>
> > >> See you in the comments!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://liberationecology.org/2013/09/11/confronting-context-permaculture-cap
> > >> italism/
> > >>
> > >> Warmly,
> > >> Rafter
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Rafter Sass Ferguson, MS
> > >> PhD Candidate | Crop Sciences Department
> > >> University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign
> > >> liberationecology.org
> > >> 518 567 7407
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
> --
> Rafter Sass Ferguson, MS
> PhD Candidate | Crop Sciences Department
> University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign
> liberationecology.org
> 518 567 7407
> _______________________________________________
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>



-- 
Rafter Sass Ferguson, MS
PhD Candidate | Crop Sciences Department
University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign
liberationecology.org
518 567 7407