permaculture

[Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

We could spend a long time discussing the definitions of capitalism, other 
forms of "ism", solidarity, and many other economic concepts. And maybe not 
ever find agreement (been there, done that). Rafter, may I suggest that it 
might be helpful for you to include a glossary in your article, defining key 
terms as you are referring to them in the article? Then we have a clear point 
from which to begin an intelligent discussion. 

 I am personally very interested in documenting what works, meaning, what has 
demonstrably improved people's lives and what has regenerated ecosystems. 
From what I've observed, it is not one-size-fits-all by any means. I know 
people who own property and the means of production who have accomplished 
significantly wonderful things in the realms of caring for earth and people 
and fair share, and I've also see that with cooperatives, and the use of the 
"commons."  The common denominator in all of those successful projects was at 
least one person who is dedicated to stewarding that piece of land or project 
and who really assumes responsibility for it, and is willing and able to 
spend the time observing the system and becoming educated enough to be 
competent at regenerating it rather than degrading it further. And who is 
willing to accept feedback and self-regulate accordingly. 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
 From: rafter sass ferguson <liberationecology@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Confronting the Context: Permaculture and   
Capitalism
 

How do you define capitalism such that what you're describing qualifies?

That doesn't sound like capitalism to me.

On Sunday, September 15, 2013, christopher nesbitt wrote:

> I think an example is that I own a farm. Among the over 600 species I
> manage, I grow pineapples. I cannot sell them in season as the market is
> flooded. I can process them for the off season, by making jams and jellies,
> and then harass my friends to buy the pineapple jam from me around
> Christmas, (which I do, literally going door to door selling my jam to my
> friends, hahaha). That is "business" and is an entrepreneurial enterprise.
> While I bought the jars from the government of Belize at a subsidized
> wholesale price, it is not capital intensive, and value adds my production.
> I own the means of labour (do most of the work myself), and the canning
> equipment didn't cost much.
>
> I also sell piglets and people buy them. I had to buy 4 pigs and build a
> piggery for them, and all of that sent me back about USD800. I have sold or
> traded 50 piglets at either USD25 each or a trade of comparable value,
> which grossed me the equivalent of USD1250. I netted USD450, minus the two
> years of feeding them excess from the farm, including the skins and hearts
> of the pineapples I planted. I then use my pig manure to make great compost
> and apply that to my pineapple and tree crops, getting spectacular growth
> rates. Since most of the pig food comes from trees, anyway, this is a good
> way to cycle the nutrients back to the farm, while also making some money.
>
> I will be fattening up three sows for the next four months, and then
> BBQ'ing them at the Saturday market, and value adding the value of the pork
> meat. Its all profit since I do not eat pork. pork, a delicacy in Maya
> communities, sells for USD1.75 a pound. One pound of pork can make two BBQ
> plates, and sells for USD3.50 with some tortilla and beans. I have to share
> some of the money with someone who makes BBQ since that is not one of my
> skills. He is an entrepreneur, and built the BBQ device from an old propane
> tank, and learned the skill set of making BBQ.
>
> In strict senses, that is both capitalism and entrepreneurial.
>
>
> _____________________________
> Christopher Nesbitt
>
> Maya Mountain Research Farm
> San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
> PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
> BELIZE,
> Central America
>
> Country code 501-630-4386
>
> www.mmrfbz.org
> www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2013, at 1:58 PM, rafter sass ferguson wrote:
>
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> > I think the article I linked to would probably answer your question. But
> in
> > case you don't feel like reading it, here you go:
> >
> > I'm borrowing the definition of capitalism that has been used for the
> last
> > 30 years by the Center for Popular Economics. Capitalism is a
> > political-economic system characterized overwhelmingly by these 5
> elements:
> > (1) Private ownership of the means of production
> > (2) Wage labor (i.e. selling your labor to an owner)
> > (3) Production for sale (not for use)
> > (4) Market exchange (as the central mechanism for making allocation
> > decisions)
> > (5) Profit maximization (as the central mechanisms for making production
> > decisions)
> >
> > I'm using the term entrepreneurial enterprise to refer to people taking
> > risks with their resources to try and make a living as their own boss (or
> > co-boss with their colleagues) - to try and turn their big ideas and
> > ambition into a livelihood.
> >
> > Hope that clarifies things.
> >
> > Warmly,
> > Rafter
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Before we start the conversation I would like to know what is the
> >> difference
> >> in the dichotomy you present "entrepreneurial enterprise" and
> >> "...capitalism"??
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >> "To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> >> obsolete"  Buckminster Fuller
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of rafter
> sass
> >> ferguson
> >> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2013 3:11 PM
> >> To: NE PC Listserv; permaculture; permaculture
> >> Subject: [permaculture] Confronting the Context: Permaculture and
> >> Capitalism
> >>
> >> Here's hoping for some *new* conversations about capitalism and
> >> permaculture - because we've heard all the old ones enough times by
> now...
> >>
> >> So let's sound the funeral dirge for that ol' smoke 'n' mirrors that
> says
> >> we have to choose between *entrepreneurial enterprise* and *opposing,
> >> undermining, and replacing capitalism.*
> >>
> >> See you in the comments!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://liberationecology.org/2013/09/11/confronting-context-permaculture-cap
> >> italism/
> >>
> >> Warmly,
> >> Rafter
> >>
> >> --
> >> Rafter Sass Ferguson, MS
> >> PhD Candidate | Crop Sciences Department
> >> University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign
> >> liberationecology.org
> >> 518 567 7407
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> >> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> permaculture mailing list
> >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>


-- 
Rafter Sass Ferguson, MS
PhD Candidate | Crop Sciences Department
University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign
liberationecology.org
518 567 7407
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--
Rafter Sass Ferguson, MS
PhD Candidate | Crop Sciences Department
University of Illinois in Urbana-Champaign
liberationecology.org
518 567 7407