permaculture

[Jay Woods <woodsjay@cox.net>]

In Yakima up on the ridges at 3000 ft, I've done well with Manchurian apricot 
and 
plums.

To harvest water I used the tricks of ditching to a basin around the tree 
with a 6 in 
layer of rocks over the basin and a larger pile of rocks on the Northwest 
side of the 
tree (which is the usual direction of blowing snow) to stop snow drifting and 
harvest the 
water. Of course, drilling a 4 ft hole and 1/4 stick of dynamite to break up 
the caliche 
layer is a fun activity. 

On Thursday, April 25, 2013 09:43:38 PM Andrew Millison wrote:
> Koreen,
> I noticed on the Navajo and Hopi lands, very harsh high desert with extreme
> wind, the only deciduous tree that grew in extremely degraded areas is the
> Siberian Elm. I'd stare in wonder as I passed by abandoned rest stops or
> burnt out homes at how the ugly elm with it's dead lower limbs and
> sandblasted understory persisted.
> 
> There are not a lot of fans of this tree out there, but I have recommended
> planting it on the windswept Colorado Plateau because of it's usefulness as
> firewood and coppice abilities. Many people drive up in the hills to cut
> Juniper, when they could have multiple windbreaks of Ulmus pumila cut on
> multi-year rotation for fuel near their homes. It's not an exceptional
> firewood, but it's decent, I've burned it plenty. You can plant from the
> prolific seed, just rake them into a swale and they will germinate with
> abundance. Of course the seed will blow into gardens and act as a weed in
> cultivated areas. But windbreaks of Siberian Elm spaced out every 50 feet
> will alter the microclimate to get more valuable trees established.
> 
> Good luck!
> Andrew
> 
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 9:00 PM, loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com>wrote:
> > Hi Koreen-
> > 
> > You could try to catch some atmospheric moisture to water the trees.  A
> > shade cloth shelter on the upwind side will block the wind, offer some
> > shade, and also act as a dew fence- if there is any moisture in the wind
> > when it blows it will condense on the fabric and drip to wherever you
> > direct it.  You can get big rolls of shade cloth for pretty cheap, and can
> > use rebar to stake- 3 x 4 ft pieces/ tree.  Alternatively if you can get
> > ahold of bamboo that may suffice and be cheaper, but may not hold up in
> > big
> > winds.
> > 
> > If you have rocks available they are great mulch.  Stacks of them will
> > also condense atmospheric moisture.  There was a thread on them recently-
> > air wells. really labor intensive obviously but permanent.
> > 
> > The "waterboxx" is another gadget to catch dew, but their $30/ea price tag
> > is a little expensive.  They have an agenda to replant 2 billion hectares
> > with their planting technique.  Maybe  they would donate 600 units!?
> > http://www.groasis.com/en/summary/summary-of-the-groasis-technology
> > 
> > The idea is surface area catches water, especially if there is a
> > temperature gradient like when dew condenses on metal at night because the
> > metal is colder than the air.  You could accomplish this on the cheap with
> > corrugated roofing or metal sheeting shaped into funnels around the bases
> > of trees to direct dew to the roots.
> > 
> > Not sure how realistic any of these would be on the rez.  Of course all
> > this also depends on their being moisture in the air.  Maybe try it out on
> > a few and see how it goes.
> > 
> > cheers-
> > Loren Luyendyk
> > 805-452-8249
> > Permaculture Design and Education
> > ISA Certified Arborist #WE-7805A
> > www.sborganics.com
> > www.globalpermaculture.com
> > www.surferswithoutborders.com
> > 
> > > Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:09:32 -0700
> > > From: cory8570@yahoo.com
> > > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drylands water capture question
> > > 
> > > You have a mustang!  Amazing creatures aren't they?  Thank you much for
> > 
> > sharing your favorite alnifolias. I think we did actually get a Regent
> > last
> > year so now I'll take a good look when I go up. You're growing passion
> > flower as an annual? I tried to get seed started up there one year but was
> > doing too much else to pay attention, it didn't take off. Does it fruit in
> > the season you have, or do you extend with greenhouse?  Yum!
> > 
> > > Koreen Brennan
> > > 
> > > www.growpermaculture.com
> > > www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> > > www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > 
> > >  From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
> > > 
> > > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 10:18 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drylands water capture question
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Koreen,
> > > I here ya on the black locust and toxicity. I've had a mustang for the
> > 
> > last
> > 
> > > 8 years and know the sensitivity of the horses gut well. Though mustangs
> > > are much hardier than most other breeds.
> > > 
> > > All the Amelanchiers do great in Colorado. I even plant the allegeny
> > > species (Eastern deciduous forest native). For fruit quality, of them
> > 
> > all I
> > 
> > > like the cultivated alnifolias. It truly depends on the person though. I
> > 
> > do
> > 
> > > taste tests with my students and they all choose different once that
> > > they
> > > like better than the others. Eric Toensmeier and I agree that the
> > > cultivated alnifolias are best in taste, so that may say something. I
> > 
> > also
> > 
> > > really like 'Regent' which is a stolonifera/alnifolia cross. They do
> > 
> > better
> > 
> > > with a little more water though. The wild ones are still worth growing,
> > 
> > but
> > 
>From rollens@fidnet.com  Fri Apr 26 13:03:42 2013
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Koreen,  Have you thought about mulberries up there on the rez?  They =
have a high protein leaf that all animals seem to love.  It can and has =
been dried as a fodder crop for centuries, by pollarding.  Here, in MO, =
the bullseye of last years extreme drought, I cut mulberry trees to feed =
to my cows.  By the middle of May most people were feeding hay, and that =
went on until August.  Pastures were totally brown, but the mulberry =
trees were in great shape.  As a matter of fact, I am going to plant =
some thickly, in rows, in a pasture, to pollard and dry the cuttings =
each year.  Hay was horrendously expensive and poor quality, to boot.  =
Up there you need a wind break, and I bet with some thought, you could =
do pollarding and windbreak with the same trees....pollard every other =
tree or row, or year....  Could be interesting.

The future is going to be different from the past in agriculture.  It =
never worked in an environmentally conscious way, but now, even the poor =
practices of the past aren't working!

Lisa, in the MO Ozarks


On Apr 26, 2013, at 12:53 AM, Koreen Brennan wrote:

> These are all fantastic ideas. We do have some inexpensive elm =
available via the NRD. Question, has anybody worked with honey locust in =
drylands? I love that tree, very useful and it has a good taproot, but =
it hasn't taken off and I'd like to see how I could assist it.=20
> =20
>=20
>=20
>=20