permaculture

[Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Out of my budget right now, so need to use other methods, plus we don't have 
a dependable tractor. 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
 From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 11:28 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drylands water capture question
 

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Glenn Gall <glenngall@gmail.com> wrote:

> Koreen --
>
> "We're thinking of ways we can mimic what keyline does (we don't have
> funding for a plow)..."
>
> I'm getting 22" shanks at $450 each.  I already have a frame, and will try
> to cobble acoulters and a roller.  Not cheap, but one shank used
> strategically can still help harvesting the rains.
>

Get the 26" shanks if you have the tractor to pull them; three on a 6 or 8
foot toolbar;
this is the one I used to own:
https://picasaweb.google.com/103223907782626104592/TractorEquipment

You do not need coulters or rollers, forget all that and just get Yeomans
system for improving the tilth of your soil,
increase distribute water infiltration. It is an invaluable tool for
farming and permaculture, there is nothing like it or
can come anywhere close in effectiveness.

>
> I believe Mark Shepard uses something like this, with reportedly
> satisfactory results.
>
> http://www.ironsearch.com/Subsoiler/Misc/1-SHANK/434708/Detail.aspx?SK=DTSS------PA
> .
>  Under $350.  Maybe you can find one closer?
>
>
Market Farm Implement in Friedans Pennsylvania is the definitive dealer for
all things Yeoman plow.
http://www.marketfarm.com/


> Glenn
>
>
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>From cory8570@yahoo.com  Fri Apr 26 00:43:07 2013
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Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 21:43:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
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No matter Jason, I'm glad you mentioned nanking wine, sounds delicious. Makes 
me think the juice would be really good too, and probably loaded with Vitamin 
C.  I'm intrigued about the passiflora and your other tips about cash crops. 
Could make a big difference there!  
 
 


________________________________
 From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org 
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drylands water capture question
 

Koreen,
I realized my cultural insensitivity about the wine suggestion. My mistake.

I got some passiflora incarnata seeds from Horizon Herbs and grew them out
that way. The P. caerulea seems to produce way more flowers than any other
passionflower I've seen, though my experience is not extensive with
passiflora species. P. caerulea grows well from cuttings rooted in water,
but I haven't tried with other species.

-- 
Jason Gerhardt

PO Box 4355
Boulder, CO 80306
303-258-7982
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>From amillison@gmail.com  Fri Apr 26 00:43:41 2013
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Koreen,
I noticed on the Navajo and Hopi lands, very harsh high desert with extreme
wind, the only deciduous tree that grew in extremely degraded areas is the
Siberian Elm. I'd stare in wonder as I passed by abandoned rest stops or
burnt out homes at how the ugly elm with it's dead lower limbs and
sandblasted understory persisted.

There are not a lot of fans of this tree out there, but I have recommended
planting it on the windswept Colorado Plateau because of it's usefulness as
firewood and coppice abilities. Many people drive up in the hills to cut
Juniper, when they could have multiple windbreaks of Ulmus pumila cut on
multi-year rotation for fuel near their homes. It's not an exceptional
firewood, but it's decent, I've burned it plenty. You can plant from the
prolific seed, just rake them into a swale and they will germinate with
abundance. Of course the seed will blow into gardens and act as a weed in
cultivated areas. But windbreaks of Siberian Elm spaced out every 50 feet
will alter the microclimate to get more valuable trees established.

Good luck!
Andrew


On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 9:00 PM, loren luyendyk <loren@sborganics.com>wrote:

> Hi Koreen-
>
> You could try to catch some atmospheric moisture to water the trees.  A
> shade cloth shelter on the upwind side will block the wind, offer some
> shade, and also act as a dew fence- if there is any moisture in the wind
> when it blows it will condense on the fabric and drip to wherever you
> direct it.  You can get big rolls of shade cloth for pretty cheap, and can
> use rebar to stake- 3 x 4 ft pieces/ tree.  Alternatively if you can get
> ahold of bamboo that may suffice and be cheaper, but may not hold up in big
> winds.
>
> If you have rocks available they are great mulch.  Stacks of them will
> also condense atmospheric moisture.  There was a thread on them recently-
> air wells. really labor intensive obviously but permanent.
>
> The "waterboxx" is another gadget to catch dew, but their $30/ea price tag
> is a little expensive.  They have an agenda to replant 2 billion hectares
> with their planting technique.  Maybe  they would donate 600 units!?
> http://www.groasis.com/en/summary/summary-of-the-groasis-technology
>
> The idea is surface area catches water, especially if there is a
> temperature gradient like when dew condenses on metal at night because the
> metal is colder than the air.  You could accomplish this on the cheap with
> corrugated roofing or metal sheeting shaped into funnels around the bases
> of trees to direct dew to the roots.
>
> Not sure how realistic any of these would be on the rez.  Of course all
> this also depends on their being moisture in the air.  Maybe try it out on
> a few and see how it goes.
>
> cheers-
> Loren Luyendyk
> 805-452-8249
> Permaculture Design and Education
> ISA Certified Arborist #WE-7805A
> www.sborganics.com
> www.globalpermaculture.com
> www.surferswithoutborders.com
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:09:32 -0700
> > From: cory8570@yahoo.com
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drylands water capture question
> >
> > You have a mustang!  Amazing creatures aren't they?  Thank you much for
> sharing your favorite alnifolias. I think we did actually get a Regent last
> year so now I'll take a good look when I go up. You're growing passion
> flower as an annual? I tried to get seed started up there one year but was
> doing too much else to pay attention, it didn't take off. Does it fruit in
> the season you have, or do you extend with greenhouse?  Yum!
> >
> > Koreen Brennan
> >
> > www.growpermaculture.com
> > www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> > www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 10:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Drylands water capture question
> >
> >
> > Koreen,
> > I here ya on the black locust and toxicity. I've had a mustang for the
> last
> > 8 years and know the sensitivity of the horses gut well. Though mustangs
> > are much hardier than most other breeds.
> >
> > All the Amelanchiers do great in Colorado. I even plant the allegeny
> > species (Eastern deciduous forest native). For fruit quality, of them
> all I
> > like the cultivated alnifolias. It truly depends on the person though. I
> do
> > taste tests with my students and they all choose different once that they
> > like better than the others. Eric Toensmeier and I agree that the
> > cultivated alnifolias are best in taste, so that may say something. I
> also
> > really like 'Regent' which is a stolonifera/alnifolia cross. They do
> better
> > with a little more water though. The wild ones are still worth growing,
> but
> > more for home use. Amelanchiers are truly one of my favorite plants and
> > fruits so I've tried practically every cultivar out there. My favorite
> > being Martin, Northline, Smoky, and Regent, and Autumn Brilliance
> > (allegeny).
> >
> > The linden flowers are best harvested before they start to make fruits,
> > which happens very quickly, so timing is everything. The less fruit
> > development the higher per oz my local herb shop will pay. We dry them,
> > only takes about two days on a screen in the shade. They are used for all
> > kinds of simple calmative reasons. When I lived in France, linden flowers
> > were extremely popular as a soothing tea. It sells faster than most other
> > herbs at my local apothecary (not quite as fast as our annual local
> > passionflower harvest).
> >
> > --
> > Jason Gerhardt
> >
> > PO Box 4355
> > Boulder, CO 80306
> > 303-258-7982
> > _______________________________________________
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--
Andrew Millison
(541) 752-9118
www.beaverstatepermaculture.com