permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

I would like to see a study of how we could feed the current population. I 
think that would need to include how we could regenerative the land and water 
that we've already messed up. I think there are some things that have been 
done with hydro or aquaponics. Doubt they include the nutritional angle. 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition


________________________________
 From: Jono Neiger <neiger@csld.edu>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] How to Feed 9 Billion People
 
"In the meantime, a study has been completed that shows that Sepp
Holzer's techniques will feed 21 billion people without irrigation or
fertilizer."

It would be great to see this study. I wouldn't put this idea out to anyone
without being able to show it. I highly doubt it's premise.

The idea of 21 billion people on this planet is overwhelming to me. Its not
just about *feeding* this humanity (which I think couldn't be done without
immense consequences), but also providing for water, housing, energy, and
transportation needs. We are physically overwhelming the planet at 7
billion. I think it is irresponsible to put out and entertain a vision of
21 billion people. The ethic of "care for the earth" could not be upheld in
this kind of future. We need to envision a creative and ethical descent
from our current population and energy use level.

Jono

******************
Jono Neiger
Regenerative Design Group
308 Main St, 2C
Greenfield, Ma 01301
413-658-7048
www.regenerativedesigngroup.com

Conway School
Graduate Program in Sustainable Landscape Planning & Design
www.csld.edu

PINE; Permaculture Institute of the Northeast
www.thepine.org



On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 10:24 AM, paul wheaton <paul@richsoil.com> wrote:

> I have no idea who has it.
>
> Dr. Immo Fiebrig was the guy that was saying he could get it to me.
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Who has it? Seems like a really important thing. But on the other hand,
> a lot of people seeing it, will go "oh, this means that 'They' have that
> all under control, we don't have any environmental or soil or water issues
> so we can just go on living like we're living and not take any
> responsibility....."
> >
> > I would use it to demonstrate that growing food more sustainably is
> important. Would really like to get a copy!
> >
> > Koreen Brennan
> >
> > www.growpermaculture.com
> > www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> > www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: paul wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
> > To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 9:34 AM
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] How to Feed 9 Billion People
> >
> > I asked that same thing once and was told they would get it to me.
> > They must have forgotten.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 23, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >> Where is a copy of this study re Sepp Holzer's methods, Paul? Is it
> available to be viewed?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>  From: paul wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
> >> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 6:41 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] How to Feed 9 Billion People
> >>
> >>> How about if we don't feed 9 billion people, don't make the inevitable
> even worse by putting it off yet another 30 years, and instead pay the
> human cost of not inflicting more ecocide on the planet. The most recent
> 2.5 billion came from turning oil into food; we're way, way past carrying
> capacity in a way that adopting a "drill, baby, drill" attitude toward food
> won't change. More food makes more people. More people increase human
> impact. That's just physics. Does anyone else see this?
> >>
> >> I think a lot of James Bond movies start with this.  The villain is
> >> trying to save humanity by killing a large portion of people.  And
> >> James Bond stops them so overpopulation can continue.
> >>
> >> In the 20's Americans pushed for eugenics and Hitler tried to impress
> >> those same Americans with really doing it - according to his
> >> interpretation.
> >>
> >> I've heard an argument favoring pesticides and childhood cancer:
> >> thinning out the weak to control population.
> >>
> >> I've heard some similar stuff about AIDS.
> >>
> >> And then you throw in that stuff from the movie Idiocracy.
> >>
> >> All this adds up to a terrible stomach ache.
> >>
> >> It's easy to say "population control" - the horrifically difficult
> >> part is an actual solution.
> >>
> >> The Poisonwood Bible offers painful clarity in this space.  One path
> >> is horrifying.  And the other path is a different flavor of
> >> horrifying.
> >>
> >> Critically important.  And horrifying.
> >>
> >> In the meantime, a study has been completed that shows that Sepp
> >> Holzer's techniques will feed 21 billion people without irrigation or
> >> fertilizer.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world
> >> domination:  http://www.richsoil.com/email.jsp
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Sign up for my daily-ish email, or my devious plots for world
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Another great debate, but are there wider issues that need to be bought
into it ? How many cows pigs chickens and other battery or penned or
enclosed animals does the world of agriculture feed ? I've done a lot of
miles over many continents over the last 30 years to see field upon field
upon field everywhere of maize, wheat and sunflowers....I ask myself crikey
do we actually eat that much bread and pasta....both bad foods.

The other question is how many of that 9 billion are morons who form the
queues of the dumb ignorant and brainwashed lining up to kiss the feet of
an ever increasing array of evangelists and drinking plasticised water with
all forms of controlling chemicals in, and, eating synthetic food. There is
one argument that suggests that only the gifted and intelligent will
survive another suggests that the meeek will inherit the earth. Then there
is "HARRP " perhaps the illuminati are working on another great plague.
Awareness is a great thing but we also need to be growing our own and have
a full kitchen garden with bursting zone 1s & 2s along with that cellar of
course, while we are continually educating the unlearned...and rid our
movement of the Evangelists, self appointed Princes and Gurus......Steve
Hart

On 24 November 2012 04:36, David Fortson <david@loatree.com> wrote:

> ,




--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
Ecology Architect
skype: stevenlawrencehart