permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

If people walk away from a permaculture class with one concept - true cost 
accounting, life cycle analysis, whatever you want to call it, they are going 
to have a harder time justifying their destructive lifestyles. Many of us 
went through that curve. The more REAL data that gets out there, the better. 
It impinges. Yes, some people will twist it, they won't get it, they will try 
to "sell" it. But we just keep the focus and keep putting out fundamental 
truths, and that sort of thing impinges. The alternative is to keep 
peramculture a secret that isn't going to get used at all in any form 
whatever, by the majority of the people on the planet, right? 
 
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
www.meetup.com/createclearwater


________________________________
 From: ChildrensPeaceGuild <childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 4:19 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture standards.
 
Great points!
 
A few years ago after an actress mentioned it on a talk show the word 
"permaculture" had a buzz to it. Naturally, there were some mixed feelings.
I think what worries me about permaculture becoming trendy is that a trend, 
by definition, is temporary. 
I am all for getting the word out to as many people as possible, but if the 
context is wrong (for example, if the messenger is worth $15 million) will it 
negate itself?
 
Once commercialized will mainstream people think they can "do permaculture" 
and still wear a $5,000 dress?
Could permaculture ever become greenwashed and lumped in with psuedo-green 
consumerism?
 
You've certainly given us lots to ponder.
Thanks.
 
-Roman
Children's Permaculture Guild
 

From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 8:34 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture standards.

Scott Pittman scott@permaculture.org
Wed Jul 11 19:54:57 EDT 2012

If one reads the following diatribe I think it becomes clear why I have been
and continue to be concerned with the direction and tone that permaculture
seems to be taking.

I am and have been deeply suspicious of the trend that is developing that is
called "mainstream" or "commercial" development of permaculture.  These are
descriptions of my worst nightmare a more deeply entrenched model of
permaculture into the capitalist arms of our current system.  It points out
the problem of language when "success" means accumulated wealth and ultimate
authority is the legal profession and threats of libel suits.

The primary reason that permaculture has been so successful is not the
wealth accumulated but the lives that have been affected and changed.  It is
that we offer an alternative to an increasingly turbulent and socially
unjust world.  I disagree with those who tout numbers of students as some
sort of measure of worth.  Those teachers who proclaim that the completion
of a PDC somehow confers the mantle of teacher on one are delusional, rather
than empowering.  This was Bill's mantra in the foundation days of
permaculture and lead to many failures and created a lack of credence in
their teaching.  I can't tell you how many students I have had who were the
experiment of a teacher who had just finished the course.  I made that
extremely embarrassing mistake myself and learned the hard way that one
cannot teach what one does not know and what one has not experienced.  Part
of the whole "mainstreaming" concept is that we need more numbers and better
access to power.  I believe that our growth has been perfectly sufficient to
our ability to grow as teachers and as an organization.  The power centers
of our culture are akin to a virulent bacteria that is infectious rather
than an agent of change for the better.

To teach classes on organic gardening to students while feeding them Cosco
food is not being thrifty but ignoring our ethics.  We are a humanistic
organization and all of our actions should reflect that.  The MBA mindset
does not have a place in my permaculture world and I will continue to speak
out when I see us drifting into the wrong lane of history.  To use the same
marketing strategies and mindset to promote and "grow" permaculture is an
abomination (to cite a much used biblical admonition).

I'll say it again, without total transparency and truth telling in our
dealings with each other and the world we risk becoming another cog in the
"mainstream".  Threats of libel suits and compost dumping will not deter me
from speaking out against what I consider malpractice.  I also realize that
there are those out there who think that we have to have a seat at the table
of power and money in order to "save the world",  in my mind those
individuals should be running for public office and not looking to
permaculture to achieve their dreams.

Finally I would like to say that Bill gave all of us permaculture and that
we have all grown it and are responsible for any of its success;
permaculture belongs to all of us and is not the property of Bill or anyone
else.  Having said that I am deeply grateful to Bill and David and all the
other pioneers of permaculture who have helped build the road we travel.
This is not a journey of capitalistic success but a journey of the heart
toward a better world and social justice and to keep that alive we have to
all be free to speak our truth and understanding of what permaculture is in
the process of becoming.  For my part I am deeply concerned that cooption
into the broken system we teach against is one of the options being
considered by many of our members.

Scott

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing."
~Arundhati Roy

http://openpermaculture.org/pipermail/permaculture_openpermaculture.org/2012-July/005534.html
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On 7/23/2012 5:58 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
> If people walk away from a permaculture class with one concept - true
> cost accounting, life cycle analysis, whatever you want to call it,
> they are going to have a harder time justifying their destructive
> lifestyles. Many of us went through that curve. The more REAL data
> that gets out there, the better. It impinges.

Well said, Koreen. Thumbs up to that. Classic.

> Yes, some people will
> twist it, they won't get it, they will try to "sell" it. But we just
> keep the focus and keep putting out fundamental truths, and that sort

> of thing impinges. The alternative is to keep peramculture a secret
> that isn't going to get used at all in any form whatever, by the
> majority of the people on the planet, right?

Is that the woo-woo thing :-) Of all the "modern", new age, alternative
movements, real, from the ground up permaculture is the least woo woo.

> Koreen Brennan
>
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
> www.meetup.com/createclearwater