permaculture

[ChildrensPeaceGuild <childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com>]

Great points!
 
A few years ago after an actress mentioned it on a talk show the word 
"permaculture" had a buzz to it. Naturally, there were some mixed feelings.
I think what worries me about permaculture becoming trendy is that a trend, 
by definition, is temporary. 
I am all for getting the word out to as many people as possible, but if the 
context is wrong (for example, if the messenger is worth $15 million) will it 
negate itself?
 
Once commercialized will mainstream people think they can "do permaculture" 
and still wear a $5,000 dress?
Could permaculture ever become greenwashed and lumped in with psuedo-green 
consumerism?
 
You've certainly given us lots to ponder.
Thanks.
 
-Roman
Children's Permaculture Guild
 

From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 8:34 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture standards.

Scott Pittman scott@permaculture.org
Wed Jul 11 19:54:57 EDT 2012

If one reads the following diatribe I think it becomes clear why I have been
and continue to be concerned with the direction and tone that permaculture
seems to be taking.

I am and have been deeply suspicious of the trend that is developing that is
called "mainstream" or "commercial" development of permaculture.  These are
descriptions of my worst nightmare a more deeply entrenched model of
permaculture into the capitalist arms of our current system.  It points out
the problem of language when "success" means accumulated wealth and ultimate
authority is the legal profession and threats of libel suits.

The primary reason that permaculture has been so successful is not the
wealth accumulated but the lives that have been affected and changed.  It is
that we offer an alternative to an increasingly turbulent and socially
unjust world.  I disagree with those who tout numbers of students as some
sort of measure of worth.  Those teachers who proclaim that the completion
of a PDC somehow confers the mantle of teacher on one are delusional, rather
than empowering.  This was Bill's mantra in the foundation days of
permaculture and lead to many failures and created a lack of credence in
their teaching.  I can't tell you how many students I have had who were the
experiment of a teacher who had just finished the course.  I made that
extremely embarrassing mistake myself and learned the hard way that one
cannot teach what one does not know and what one has not experienced.  Part
of the whole "mainstreaming" concept is that we need more numbers and better
access to power.  I believe that our growth has been perfectly sufficient to
our ability to grow as teachers and as an organization.  The power centers
of our culture are akin to a virulent bacteria that is infectious rather
than an agent of change for the better.

To teach classes on organic gardening to students while feeding them Cosco
food is not being thrifty but ignoring our ethics.  We are a humanistic
organization and all of our actions should reflect that.  The MBA mindset
does not have a place in my permaculture world and I will continue to speak
out when I see us drifting into the wrong lane of history.  To use the same
marketing strategies and mindset to promote and "grow" permaculture is an
abomination (to cite a much used biblical admonition).

I'll say it again, without total transparency and truth telling in our
dealings with each other and the world we risk becoming another cog in the
"mainstream".  Threats of libel suits and compost dumping will not deter me
from speaking out against what I consider malpractice.  I also realize that
there are those out there who think that we have to have a seat at the table
of power and money in order to "save the world",  in my mind those
individuals should be running for public office and not looking to
permaculture to achieve their dreams.

Finally I would like to say that Bill gave all of us permaculture and that
we have all grown it and are responsible for any of its success;
permaculture belongs to all of us and is not the property of Bill or anyone
else.  Having said that I am deeply grateful to Bill and David and all the
other pioneers of permaculture who have helped build the road we travel.
This is not a journey of capitalistic success but a journey of the heart
toward a better world and social justice and to keep that alive we have to
all be free to speak our truth and understanding of what permaculture is in
the process of becoming.  For my part I am deeply concerned that cooption
into the broken system we teach against is one of the options being
considered by many of our members.

Scott

"Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing."
~Arundhati Roy

http://openpermaculture.org/pipermail/permaculture_openpermaculture.org/2012-July/005534.html
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G'day,

My feeling is that Permaculture the brand will invariably become tainted as
an inevitable function of becoming mainstreamed, something that in some
markets has already occurred unfortunately. To certify Permaculture
training as per the originally mooted Mollisonian model has proved a little
funky and a bit flaky in some circumstances however very well done by
others.

To us it has always been about the model (of ethics and design principles)
and not the brand hence our 1993 statement that, "we wish to move
Permaculture from being a marginal methodology to an unconscious practice",
something we as as a species are not even remotely close to. Applying
certification (controls) particularly nationally and internationally we
would suggest is playing the game of the dominant degenerative paradigm,
however applied regionally and locally provides the applied potential to
exert standards and ethics but even then it is difficult when free will
reigns!

Our response has been to all of this, especially post 'The Permaculture
Institute' (AU) Teacher Registration closure, has been to progressively
delaminate ourselves from the layers of attachment that we have had to
certification of any kind, quite a reaction that some would see as going to
the other side of the pendulum. However for us it is an expression of the
'uncertified rational (*e)' position we have come to where one's own
actions, results & reputation along with the immediate relationships one
holds is all you can exert any modicum of control over, particularly
important when it comes to the branding you represent yourself with in the
wild wonderful world we live in.

So I agree with Scott in that we have to apply some caution with regards
the rapid growth of the movement under some cookie cutter model of success
or express PDC>Teacher models that I have never agreed with. These are
seductive models that I have fell for from time to time as many of us have
however there is an inevitable negative result that happens when anything
operates outside of the true economy of nature itself. Again the free will
and poor judgement of many, often noisy and attention seeking humans will
likely continue and they will increasingly find Permaculture an attractive
vehicle and 'void' to pollute. Those with integrity however will always
stand tall and rise above the morass of others who have little difficulty
sleeping at night despite their actions.

All the best,

Darren J. Doherty

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 6:19 PM, ChildrensPeaceGuild <
childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Great points!
>
> A few years ago after an actress mentioned it on a talk show the word
> "permaculture" had a buzz to it. Naturally, there were some mixed feelings.
> I think what worries me about permaculture becoming trendy is that a
> trend, by definition, is temporary.
> I am all for getting the word out to as many people as possible, but if
> the context is wrong (for example, if the messenger is worth $15 million)
> will it negate itself?
>
> Once commercialized will mainstream people think they can "do
> permaculture" and still wear a $5,000 dress?
> Could permaculture ever become greenwashed and lumped in with psuedo-green
> consumerism?
>
> You've certainly given us lots to ponder.
> Thanks.
>
> -Roman
> Children's Permaculture Guild
>
>
> From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2012 8:34 PM
> Subject: [permaculture] Permaculture standards.
>
> Scott Pittman scott@permaculture.org
> Wed Jul 11 19:54:57 EDT 2012
>
> If one reads the following diatribe I think it becomes clear why I have
> been
> and continue to be concerned with the direction and tone that permaculture
> seems to be taking.
>
> I am and have been deeply suspicious of the trend that is developing that
> is
> called "mainstream" or "commercial" development of permaculture.  These are
> descriptions of my worst nightmare a more deeply entrenched model of
> permaculture into the capitalist arms of our current system.  It points out
> the problem of language when "success" means accumulated wealth and
> ultimate
> authority is the legal profession and threats of libel suits.
>
> The primary reason that permaculture has been so successful is not the
> wealth accumulated but the lives that have been affected and changed.  It
> is
> that we offer an alternative to an increasingly turbulent and socially
> unjust world.  I disagree with those who tout numbers of students as some
> sort of measure of worth.  Those teachers who proclaim that the completion
> of a PDC somehow confers the mantle of teacher on one are delusional,
> rather
> than empowering.  This was Bill's mantra in the foundation days of
> permaculture and lead to many failures and created a lack of credence in
> their teaching.  I can't tell you how many students I have had who were the
> experiment of a teacher who had just finished the course.  I made that
> extremely embarrassing mistake myself and learned the hard way that one
> cannot teach what one does not know and what one has not experienced.  Part
> of the whole "mainstreaming" concept is that we need more numbers and
> better
> access to power.  I believe that our growth has been perfectly sufficient
> to
> our ability to grow as teachers and as an organization.  The power centers
> of our culture are akin to a virulent bacteria that is infectious rather
> than an agent of change for the better.
>
> To teach classes on organic gardening to students while feeding them Cosco
> food is not being thrifty but ignoring our ethics.  We are a humanistic
> organization and all of our actions should reflect that.  The MBA mindset
> does not have a place in my permaculture world and I will continue to speak
> out when I see us drifting into the wrong lane of history.  To use the same
> marketing strategies and mindset to promote and "grow" permaculture is an
> abomination (to cite a much used biblical admonition).
>
> I'll say it again, without total transparency and truth telling in our
> dealings with each other and the world we risk becoming another cog in the
> "mainstream".  Threats of libel suits and compost dumping will not deter me
> from speaking out against what I consider malpractice.  I also realize that
> there are those out there who think that we have to have a seat at the
> table
> of power and money in order to "save the world",  in my mind those
> individuals should be running for public office and not looking to
> permaculture to achieve their dreams.
>
> Finally I would like to say that Bill gave all of us permaculture and that
> we have all grown it and are responsible for any of its success;
> permaculture belongs to all of us and is not the property of Bill or anyone
> else.  Having said that I am deeply grateful to Bill and David and all the
> other pioneers of permaculture who have helped build the road we travel.
> This is not a journey of capitalistic success but a journey of the heart
> toward a better world and social justice and to keep that alive we have to
> all be free to speak our truth and understanding of what permaculture is in
> the process of becoming.  For my part I am deeply concerned that cooption
> into the broken system we teach against is one of the options being
> considered by many of our members.
>
> Scott
>
> "Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
> On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing."
> ~Arundhati Roy
>
>
> http://openpermaculture.org/pipermail/permaculture_openpermaculture.org/2012-July/005534.html
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
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> Avant Geared  http://www.avantgeared.com
>



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