permaculture

[Lee Flier <leeflier@comcast.net>]

On 8/16/2010 6:28 PM, rafter sass wrote:
> Permaculture is a design approach and a movement at the very same time - if 
> you use
> a recognizable definition of movement. (I guess I'm camping in both of your 
> camps.)
>    

I would agree with this, and I think Toby does too.  I think what Toby 
may be getting at is that we don't need to take any kind of top-down 
approach to the social movement aspect of permaculture (not that 
permaculturists shouldn't get involved with more direct social action if 
they're inclined, but it shouldn't be part of any teaching agenda).  I 
think that permaculture is more effective as a movement when we simply 
teach and apply it as a design system, wherever and whenever we can, and 
the very act of doing this changes the participants.  I think this is a 
more effective route to the kinds of changes we would like to see as 
permaculturists, because healing the earth requires so many participants 
from every walk of life, some of whom are now are "enemies."  I think 
that sometimes people don't trust the inherent wisdom of the design 
principles and their ability to transform people from within.

Let me ask you this: the military exists and is doing a lot of things 
that we don't like.  White supremacist groups exist and are doing a lot 
of things that we don't like.  They aren't going to change or go away 
just because we tell them to.  What would you propose that a 
permaculturist do about these things? And exactly what good does 
refusing to teach them permaculture do?