permaculture

[Scott Dubois <spacehound7@yahoo.com>]

I hate to stir up the discussion on this more, but it
seems a little off balance.

I would agree that it's a misstep to think that
because different cultures have used drugs in a
controlled environment before, we can use them
recreationally. Actually, it's hard for me to even see
how one might reach that conclusion.

What needs to be understood is that psychedelics are
powerful substances that can be used for good or ill.
Iron can be hammered into swords or plows. A knife
heals in the hand of a surgeon and kills in the hands
of a murderer. I wouldn't give an axe or an automobile
over to a novice unsupervised. Etc, etc... so it goes
with anything... you get the idea. 

The key here is the user and their intent. 

I personally have a profound respect for psychedelic
substances. They have been a force for good in my
life. They have grounded me to the source when I felt
unsteady in life, when I've doubted myself... And as a
result have opened me up to many things that I may not
have taken notice of before (my connection to my
environment, the workings of nature, and even
Permaculture).

It's best to approach anything, including psychedlics,
with respect. The internet has some great resources
for those of you interested in responsible drug use:

*<a href="http://www.drugpolicy.org/";>The Drug Policy
Alliance</a> advocates a reasonable national drug
policy based on harm reduction. Good people.

*The <a href="http://www.maps.org/";>Multidisciplinary
Association for Psychedelic Studies</a> sponsors
scientific research about the benefits and risks of
psychedelic substances.

*<a href="http://www.erowid.org/";>Erowid</a> has a
wealth of links, documents, and personal experiences
about medicinal plants.

*<a href="http://www.csp.org/";>The Council on
Spiritual Practices</a> approaches psychedelics from a
religious point of view.

If you read books, Aldous Huxely's the Doors of
Perception is a great place to start (it is what
changed my mind about the use of psychedlics). Huston
Smith has also written a great book called Cleansing
the Doors of Perception if you are interested in
religion.

Hopefully this will be useful to some of you. Don't
let drugs become a crutch or an escape, but don't
discount their benefits.

Y'all have a nice day/night,   

Scott

PS- It's a little simplistic and misguided to suggest
that drugs resulted in the end of the "hippy and punk
movements," but I'd rather not get started on that.  

PSPS- Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it
isn't there. Marijuana has been present during some
wonderful and creative brainstorming sessions in my
experience.

---

"God is The still point at The center." -Julian of
Norwich



--- d pfalzer <d_pfalzer@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I wonder if when we choose to look to indigenous
> cultures for inspiration on how to create a
> permanant
> culture and deduce that because they used
> psychedelic
> mushrooms in a controlled manner, it is okay for us
> to
> use LSD or whatever drugs we want recreationally --
> if
> perhaps we are taking a reference out-of-context
> rather grievously.  What do you think?
> 
> --- Graham <grahamburnett@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > I'm not that bothered what Bill & dave think about
> > psychedilcs (no 
> > disrespect, chaps), we should be thinking for
> > ourselves, not looking up 
> > to 'leaders'- isn't that the central message of
> > permaculture- or is that 
> > anarchy??? Bill and Dave had great ideas, but I'm
> > sure they'd be the 
> > last to want to see them stand still and
> > undeveloped... permanent 
> > Culture doesn't mean its dead and static, rtaher
> > that its sustainable 
> > and evolving...
> > 
> > I also don't see why its 'conservative' to
> question
> > the benefits of drug 
> > taking- it could equally be equally seen as
> > conservative to promote LSD, 
> > dope, etc as 'mind enhancing'. From my experience
> > around drug users they 
> > often seem to be too stoned and apathetic to be
> much
> > of a threat to 
> > anything, let alone any sort of a danger to the
> > destructoculture status 
> > quo. All I've ever seen is drugs killing
> creativity
> > rather than 
> > enhancing it... What destroyed the hippy and punk
> > movements???
> > 
> > Yes I know 'legal' drugs do vast amounts of social
> > harm, but I never 
> > claimed that for me beer does anything other
> provide
> > some enjoyement and 
> > relaxation- though I reckon I've seen more
> creative
> > ideas born over a 
> > convivial pint or two in the pub than I have in
> any
> > room full of stoned 
> > hippys rolling joints on a Pink Floyd album sleeve
> > saying "Maaan" alot 
> > before falling asleep (and I am speaking from
> deeply
> > depressing 
> > experience...)...
> > 
> > I don't mean to come across as moralistic or
> > anything, cos that 
> > certainly isn't the perspective I'm coming from,
> and
> > I certainly believe 
> > that its everybodies right to do what the want
> with
> > their own bodie- but 
> > as Larry says this should be a free discussion
> > space- but that goes both 
> > ways...
> > 
> > Cheers Graham
> > 
> > Kaia Bronte wrote:
> > 
> > >If I were new to the permaculture way I would
> ask,
> > based on your statements:
> > >which psychedelic drugs do Bill Mollison and
> David
> > Holmgren recommend?
> > >
> > >The One Peace be with You,
> > >
> > >/ l.s. / Kaia Bronte
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >[mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org]On
> > Behalf Of Lawrence F.
> > >London, Jr.
> > >Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:33 PM
> > >To: permaculture
> > >Subject: Re: [permaculture] psychedlics and
> > permaculture
> > >
> > >
> > >Rain Tenaqiya wrote:
> > >  
> > >
> > >>I'm surprised to find such conservative views
> > about psychedelic substances
> > >>    
> > >>
> > >
> > >  
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> >
>
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > 
> 
> 
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