permaculture

["GlobalCirclenet" <webmaster@globalcircle.net>]

AMEN!!! Muchas gracias neotern-1. Thank you very much! I have also been
sitting here watching people trying to justify outrageous behavior and
prices.Unfortunately, while I live in this sociopathic culture I was raised
much more differently. I was taught that you share knowledge given by the
earth and no-one can really lay claim to any knowledge. What I find very
sad is that a lot of these kinds of people are educational "high brows" who
practice "hobby farming" while living off their stock options and trust
funds. I truly could never live the wasteful lifestyles they do, even if I
had their money. I wouldn't want to.........I consider it disrespectful to
the Earth.
I nearly fell of my chair when I saw the justification for charging people
money was in order to make them "appreciate it". In my experience, (and boy
do I have plenty of it), in most cases I've found these very same people
who are so smug and deprecating are often too busy talking the walk instead
of walking the walk.That's why it's a big world .They can stay in their
little orbits and attack anyone "not of their own kind or thinking".
The problem is that with their shallow view that money is the answer to
everything ,they're one of the few able to go around the world and spread
their warped beliefs and customs.They're equally as guilty as the WTO,GMO's
and multinational corporations. Many people across the world only get to
see them, instead of the many real people who can't even afford to choose
between medicine or food. Please don't judge the lot by the few miertas.
 Sustainability and working with the Earth is a GROUP EFFORT. We are all
connected and each of us benefits from and should help one another. Not
because it's economically benficial or even socially acceptable but because
it's the RIGHT thing to do. How can you put a price tag on a ladybug?? Why
do you think there aren't any advertising programs to convince ladybugs to
eat Brand A aphids??I'll give you a hint-because they don't spend any money
and crass consumptive commercialism only applies to the human species. Far
too often many people tend to stay within their own comfort level. Many
people here in this country can't help the way they are-they're often a
victim of their circumstances and choosing to stay that way.
Funny thing, because they consider themselves "cultured" and "advanced". I
was always taught to share,not waste anything, and do all you can to help
all you can. That doesn't mean charging a years wages in order to tell
people how to grow the "right way"or the "trendy" way.  Many places around
the world are already doing things the best way for their LOCAL area and
availability. I believe it's not about telling someone else how to do
something, but about sharing what each of us knows and going from there.
It's about having respect for each other and for the Earth, not because
it's trendy to say so, but because that's the honorable thing. That's why
there's such a huge divide between those who call themselves the "haves"
and the rest of the world. We're not envious of them. I consider myself
wealthy in all the things that matter to me-loving family,fresh veggies to
eat-and the community of a sharing and sustainable group. Things money
can't buy.
Those who can "do"-those who can't talk about it. Some even write books and
give seminars too.
I'm sure I'll be attacked for speaking out. Or brushed aside as
"clueless".That's OK, I'm living my life and doing all I can to help all I
can. I only hope that this exchange will get people THINKING. Do you think
I should charge people for listening to my opinion??Is that the only way
it's going to be "worth something"?After all, I did spend a whole lifetime
formulating it. It has to be "worth something"........sigh...........

For the Earth,
Barb

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 9/15/2004 at 12:59 AM neotern-1@yahoo.com wrote:

>--- Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
>escribió:
>
><snip>
>>
>> Here's one of my favorite stories about ownership.
>> At a design course I
>> taught, the conveners handed us about 25 mugs and
>> asked that everyone put
>> their name on one. For a week, each participant
>> washed his or her mug every
>> day and returned it to the tea station. Then halfway
>> through the course, the
>> mugs were sent through a dishwasher and the labels
>> came off. Within 3 days,
>> every cup was dirty, half-full of moldy tea, strewn
>> around the room, on
>> windowsills or spilled on the floor or under a
>> couch, because no one had
>> ownership. And these were good, kind earth-people
>> types! Ownership entails
>> responsibility; common property is abused. Read
>> Garret Hardin's "The Tragedy
>> of the Commons" for countless more examples.
>>
>
>Well, I thought I said all I had to say, but
>apparently not. This gringo-europeo-centrism just is
>too much for me.
>
>To begin with, people who can't take care of something
>if they don't see their name on it, be it a mug or a
>piece of earth, are not and cannot be "good, kind
>earth-care people". These are greedy, irresponsible
>self-care people - however they may try to fool
>themselves and others in believing otherwise.
>
>Secondly: PLEASE do NOT generalize gringo-european
>behaviour and mistake it for general human behaviour.
>(When I say gringo/european I'm not talking about race
>but about culture). The sad egocentric behaviour you
>describe is very true for a small part of humanity, a
>part that is in a very true sense sick -
>sociopathic(*)  -, and for that same reason the most
>aggressive and ignorant part. So ignorant that it
>projects its own distorted image on the rest of the
>planet.
>
>However, millions, even billions of people living in
>non-european/gringo cultures throughout Latin-America,
>Africa, large parts of Asia, Oceania and Australia DO
>live on a common, communal basis. In fact, most of the
>cultures who have had the luck not to be wiped out by
>colonialism or its younger sisters "development aid"
>and "education" (european style) do so, from the
>indigenous people of Latin-America to rural Africans
>to the Inuit and aboriginals and so on (again:
>cultures, not races).
>
>(About "development aid" and "education": what is a
>culture, like the gringo/european one, who succeeded
>in transforming its natural environment in a lake of
>toxic shit in no more than 150 years time, going to
>teach or help cultures who lived sustainably UNTIL
>this "developed" culture set foot on their continents,
>be it America, Africa, Australia or Oceania? And let's
>not answer permaculture: in Latin-America as well as
>in Japan, it is an established fact that permaculture
>was practiced until colonisation began and brought in
>the plough.)
>
>My wife, who is Mexican, was brought up in a small
>Mexican-Indian village, where every detail of daily
>life was pointed towards the commons (now it's sadly
>being swallowed by the gigantic tumor of Mexico City),
>and egocentric behaviour severely discouraged.
>
>My God, go tell the zapatistas in Chiapas, or the
>Mapuches, or the indigenous people in Columbia, in
>Peru, who are fighting every day with their LIVES to
>protect the commons against private greed, that
>"ownership entails responsibility"!!
>
>You have exactly put your finger on the sore spot
>here. If you do not believe in the commons, how can
>you speak of earth-care?
>
>Now I'm beginning to understand all this about reward
>for time/skill/energy in writing books and giving
>courses, etc. Closing the energy-loop is necessary for
>things like paper (returning the wood you took) etc.,
>NOT for the time or energy you as a human being
>"invest" in something you do or learn to do.
>Wake up people: the reward for writing a text, for
>acquiring a skill, is the text or the skill itself
>(and the response it has in the world). The energy you
>as a human put into it is not "lost out of the
>system", it TRANSFORMED itself into a skill, into a
>text.
>Maybe we should start rewarding the birds for the
>energy and time they "invest" in hunting insect-pests;
>or better still, for the skill of insect-hunting they
>acquired through years of trial and error and that
>didn't come free to them either?
>
>This is where Masanobu Fukuoka's natural farming is so
>much more profound than permaculture; pointing
>outwards instead of inwards, and never falling in
>these traps - there just isn't enough there to fall in
>a trap... (For those unacquainted with Fukuoka-san,
>read "the One-Straw Revolution").
>
>And again, if you need money, go ahead and make it any
>way you like, I'm not condemning that. Selling your
>time and skills is ok with me, it may even be a
>necessity in a sociopathic culture. But for me it's
>only a crazy means in a crazy world to be able to care
>for the earth and people afterwards, not earth- or
>people-care itself.
>
>(*) sociopath: "Individuals with this disorder have
>little regard for the feeling and welfare of others,
>(...)." Among the general symptoms are: inability to
>form meaningful relationships, inability to control
>impulses, lack of moral sense, chronically antisocial
>behavior, emotional immaturity, self-centeredness.
>"They do not consider other people's wishes, welfare
>or
>rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain
>personal pleasure or profit. High risk sexual behavior
>and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness, failure
>to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability,
>irresponsibility, and a reckless disregard for their
>own safety and the safety of others are traits of the
>antisocial personality." (source:
>http://www.9types.com/wwwboard/messages/18332.html)
>Recognize gringo/european culture here? I do...
>
>>
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