permaculture

["souscayrous" <souscayrous@wanadoo.fr>]

This seems a necessary debate, well represented by the two posts below. I
offer no synthesis, simply my support for Claude's point of view, or rather
Fukuoka's observations regarding weeds (and I include exotics although the
difference might be a debate in itself). I don't know if Mark has read The
One-Straw Revolution, or perhaps many others on this list? However, I have
made an electronic version of it that I can upload to somewhere on Ibiblio
if Lawrence tells me where.
Mollison seems loath nowadays to openly acknowledge the influence of Fukuoka
on his early thinking and teaching and I suspect a PDC has no mandatory
section on Fukuoka and Natural Farming (like Mark I have never done a PDC
and question its necessity also, while however recognising its worth,
although my concerns are rather more along the lines of David Holmgren than
those expressed previously by Mark). Yet a PDC, with or without explicit
Fukuoka influence, might have revealed to Mark that his solution to 'whack
weeds' is exactly the mechanical domination of nature that he also
criticises below

However the current situation where the pesky monkey people move
 dozens of new species into the ecosystem and then provide boats,
 farm machinery, fish hatchery, botanical gardens etc to spread them
 around is simply overwhelming the potential for adapting.


I prefer Fukuoka's less combative relationship with nature when he says;

Weeds play their part inbuilding soil fertility and in balancing the
 biological community. As a fundamental principle, weeds should
 be controlled, not eliminated...In coping with problems such as
 these, the only sensible approach is to discontinue the unnatural
 practices, which have brought about the situation in the first place.
 The farmer also has a responsibility to repair the damage he has
 caused. Cultivation of the soil should be discontinued, if gentle
 measures such as spreading straw and sowing clover are practiced,
instead of using man-made chemicals and machinery to wage a war
 of annihilation, then the environment will move back toward its
 natural balance and even troublesome weeds can be brought
under control. (One-Straw p 12-14)


Souscayrous
-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture-admin@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:permaculture-admin@lists.ibiblio.org]On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:22 PM
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Exotic Plant Eradication - Holmgren

At 08:49 PM 8/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Anyway, for another perspective on the debate, check out the Holmgren
>article I attached - he talks of "ecosynthesis" - very interesting and very
>much in keeping with the Gaia theory ( not that we shouldn't and indeed
>mustn't sometimes chop and drop Mark, just that we should observe the hell
>out of it first - for more on that perspaective, please read Mollison's
>inspiration - Mansanobu Fukuoka's "One Straw Revolution" - Nature really is
>much smarter than us you know...)
>
>Claude Genest

I do not doubt that given time to adapt to new species invasion most
landscapes can reach a good equilibrium.  However the current situation
where the pesky monkey people move dozens of new species into the ecosystem
and then provide boats, farm machinery, fish hatchery, botanical gardens
etc to spread them around is simply overwhelming the potential for
adapting.  Like all weed management there is a place for restraint, but
there is no where near enough effort being made to intervene in places
where the situation is clear.  Small invasions are tolerated until they
balloon into massive problems. I have seen it many times.  Ya'll don't have
to be chain saw wielders if you don't want to, your all free people, I'm a
libertarian, do what you will.  Don't expect me to just let pass this
balderdash that weeds aren't really a problem.
M


Mark P. Ludwig
Poultry Research Lab
University of Wisconsin -Madison
608-262-1730 WK
608-846-7125 HM

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