permaculture

[Mark <mpludwig@facstaff.wisc.edu>]

At 03:21 PM 8/14/02 -0400, you wrote:
> One man's weed is another man's savior ( like the red clover of Vt. I
> mentioned).... Dismissing all exotics as mere "weeds" sounds like the modern
> geneticist who dismisses 95 % of our genetic code just because they can't
> see what it does (the tonsils/appendix of our day).

I don't believe I have dismissed all exotics.  In other posts I have even 
recommended aggressive invasive species (reed canary grass, black locust) 
because they fit a function and they can be kept in check.  I went around 
this topic with Dan Heminway a few years back re - multiflora rose, a 
terrible pest in pastures with no redeeming value that was not better 
supplied by other plants,  even other well adapted roses.  To this in my 
area I would add Canada thistle, leafy spurge, buck thorn trees and honey 
suckle brush.  A few others as well, and attack them with greater of lessor 
diligence to preserve more valuable species.  I certainly do not support 
the level of effort needed to eradicate very many things.

>  Until one knows what role the "invader" is playing ecologically, then to
> try and eradicate them just because they're out-competing natives seems like
> a knee-jerk "gotta do SOMETHING" reaction.

OK, once you have them figured out can we wack um down?

>  Besides, if they're out-competing natives, it's likely because the
> conditions in which the natives thrived have been altered, and guess who
> altered them ?
> Like the Zen Master says "don't just do something, sit there !"

Not really true IMO, many invaders are simply more vigorous competitors in 
similar ecological niches.

> > From: Mark <mpludwig@facstaff.wisc.edu>
> > Reply-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:22:29 -0500
> > To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Exotic Plant Eradication - Holmgren
> >
> > At 08:49 PM 8/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
> >> Anyway, for another perspective on the debate, check out the Holmgren
> >> article I attached - he talks of "ecosynthesis" - very interesting and 
> very
> >> much in keeping with the Gaia theory ( not that we shouldn't and indeed
> >> mustn't sometimes chop and drop Mark, just that we should observe the hell
> >> out of it first - for more on that perspaective, please read Mollison's
> >> inspiration - Mansanobu Fukuoka's "One Straw Revolution" - Nature 
> really is
> >> much smarter than us you know...)
> >>
> >> Claude Genest
> >
> > I do not doubt that given time to adapt to new species invasion most
> > landscapes can reach a good equilibrium.  However the current situation
> > where the pesky monkey people move dozens of new species into the ecosystem
> > and then provide boats, farm machinery, fish hatchery, botanical gardens
> > etc to spread them around is simply overwhelming the potential for
> > adapting.  Like all weed management there is a place for restraint, but
> > there is no where near enough effort being made to intervene in places
> > where the situation is clear.  Small invasions are tolerated until they
> > balloon into massive problems. I have seen it many times.  Ya'll don't have
> > to be chain saw wielders if you don't want to, your all free people, I'm a
> > libertarian, do what you will.  Don't expect me to just let pass this
> > balderdash that weeds aren't really a problem.
> > M
> >
> >
> > Mark P. Ludwig
> > Poultry Research Lab
> > University of Wisconsin -Madison
> > 608-262-1730 WK
> > 608-846-7125 HM
> >
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Mark P. Ludwig
Poultry Research Lab
University of Wisconsin -Madison
608-262-1730 WK
608-846-7125 HM