permaculture

[Claude Genest <genest@together.net>]

> 
Mark Wrote : OK, once you have them figured out can we wack um down?




Claude replies: I took a one year biodynamic course this year Mark, and my
teacher there at the Pfeiffer institute makes the good point that since man
made the mess, clearly man needs to be involved in cleaning it up - We ARE a
part of nature after all, so yes, our intervention is integral to the whole
regeneration process - That being said, I notice that most "conservation"
efforts focus mostly on whackin' and much less on planting - so, if the
invasive species has already proven itself to outcompete that which
surrounds it, how will whackin' um down change that but for the shortest of
times ? Unless you plant something better suited to the (altered and
regenerating) land, you will inevitably find yourself with the same problem,
no ?

Secondly, there is the notion of succession - what we perceive in our short
life spans to be something "taking over" is in fact, in the longer term, but
a temporary "invasion" to "colonise" and prepare the land for the next wave
of "winners" - In other words, that invasive species is exactly what that
land needs at that time to repair itself..... We can ACCELERATE succession,
but we can't possibly hope to bypass it...

Lastly, I notice that you chose to ignore my assertion that nature really is
much smarter than us - that she doesn't make mistakes...... IMHO there are
countless examples of man's interpretations of what should or shouldn't live
backfiring, and no examples that I can think of, of nature making the wrong
choice.....

But then aagin, who knows, maybe you are that one in a billion ? ;-)



>>> From: Mark <mpludwig@facstaff.wisc.edu>
>>> Reply-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 10:22:29 -0500
>>> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>>> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Exotic Plant Eradication - Holmgren
>>> 
>>> At 08:49 PM 8/13/02 -0400, you wrote:
>>>> Anyway, for another perspective on the debate, check out the Holmgren
>>>> article I attached - he talks of "ecosynthesis" - very interesting and
>> very
>>>> much in keeping with the Gaia theory ( not that we shouldn't and indeed
>>>> mustn't sometimes chop and drop Mark, just that we should observe the 
>>>> hell
>>>> out of it first - for more on that perspaective, please read Mollison's
>>>> inspiration - Mansanobu Fukuoka's "One Straw Revolution" - Nature
>> really is
>>>> much smarter than us you know...)
>>>> 
>>>> Claude Genest
>>> 
>>> I do not doubt that given time to adapt to new species invasion most
>>> landscapes can reach a good equilibrium.  However the current situation
>>> where the pesky monkey people move dozens of new species into the 
>>> ecosystem
>>> and then provide boats, farm machinery, fish hatchery, botanical gardens
>>> etc to spread them around is simply overwhelming the potential for
>>> adapting.  Like all weed management there is a place for restraint, but
>>> there is no where near enough effort being made to intervene in places
>>> where the situation is clear.  Small invasions are tolerated until they
>>> balloon into massive problems. I have seen it many times.  Ya'll don't 
>>> have
>>> to be chain saw wielders if you don't want to, your all free people, I'm a
>>> libertarian, do what you will.  Don't expect me to just let pass this
>>> balderdash that weeds aren't really a problem.
>>> M
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mark P. Ludwig
>>> Poultry Research Lab
>>> University of Wisconsin -Madison
>>> 608-262-1730 WK
>>> 608-846-7125 HM
>>> 
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>> 
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> 
> Mark P. Ludwig
> Poultry Research Lab
> University of Wisconsin -Madison
> 608-262-1730 WK
> 608-846-7125 HM
> 
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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