North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Sarah Kehler Ewing <skkewing@yahoo.com>]

I should have clarified that, but I really wasn't trying to start a fight or 
tick anyone off.

What I meant by 'do better' is simply a comment on the biochemical imbalances 
that must result from grafting.  It makes scientific sense to me that a plant 
that is 100% connected to and is genetically identical to its roots is just 
set up to draw from the soil what the top needs and store down under, what 
the top produces.  

I fully realize that maybe not every tree 'top' that I can grow here would 
necessarily survive on its own roots, but I'm not talking about 
survivability; my reference is more to the whole picture of health.  Kind of 
like how my prairie farmer neighbours can grow nice looking wheat crops by 
pouring on fertilizer, but those crops will never have the same levels of 
micronutrients that a wheat crop would growing on healthy soil (yes, I farm 
organically!).  The idea that a grafted tree/its fruit wouldn't have the same 
levels of micronutrients as an own root tree/its fruit seems to me to 
intuitively follow the same line of reasoning.  Who knows?  Maybe a tree that 
struggles with something like fireblight when grafted, might not or might not 
as much on its own roots.... and also I'm willing to concede a rootstock may 
also confer something to a particular tree top that reduces its struggles in 
a different way; but I still think that the grafting has a
 biochemical cost even if for some 'kinds', that cost is worth it.  


And as an aside:  would someone please inbox me (no need to tie up the list 
for my giggles) the Bible reference(s) about grafting?  I'm a Christian and 
an avid grafter and I've never come across this before!

 
Sarah 


________________________________
 From: Alexander Brands <abb7@Lehigh.EDU>
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org 
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:41:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nafex] the evils of grafting
 

Quoting nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org:


>
> Pro seedlings: I can't believe that a plant of any kind on its own  
> roots will not do better than one that is grafted.? It only makes  
> sense.?

This will depend on the environment, at least in some cases.  
Certainly rootstocks vary in their performance under different  
conditions (soil composition, moisture levels, diseases prevalent in  
the area etc).  It's unlikely that a seedling is going to outperform  
every rootstock under every condition.  Maybe someone here can  
confirm, but I've heard that Honeycrisp almost didn't get to trial  
because it grew so poorly on its own roots.

Also, when you say "do better"......do better for who?  The tree or  
the grower?  Dwarfing rootstocks certainly help out the grower if  
that's the kind of tree they want, even if the tree is not as vigorous  
as it would be on its own roots.


> Not to mention, seedlings are fun and exciting: can't wait to see  
> what I will get... when they finally fruit!? I have seedling apples,  
> pears, plums and apricots; unfortunately, they put out their first  
> blossoms last year when I was transplanting them so I had to remove  
> them.? Got my fingers crossed for this year though!?

I agree it is a fun part of gardening.  I have several seedling  
pawpaws, progeny of excellent cultivars, and I'm very excited to get  
fruit from them!

Alex

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On Nov 15, 2012, at 4:18 PM, Sarah Kehler Ewing wrote:

> 
> And as an aside:  would someone please inbox me (no need to tie up the list 
> for my giggles) the Bible reference(s) about grafting?  I'm a Christian and 
> an avid grafter and I've never come across this before!
> 
>  
> Sarah 

I think it is relevant enough to the broader conversation that I am writing 
this to the list. I hope folks don't mind.

I was surprised to find that there is no explicit Biblical prohibition of 
grafting, since I was taught in Hebrew school that it was forbidden. In fact, 
there are several Biblical references that suggest farmers were growing 
grafted grapes and other fruits. There is, however, a biblical injunction 
against mixing two kinds of plants:

Lev 19:19 "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender 
with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither 
shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee."

Deut 22:9 "Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit 
of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled."

However, the Talmud (the Jewish compilation of "oral law", explaining and 
expanding on the written law in the Torah) does contain an explicit ban on 
grafting different species together. I wasn't able to find a good primary 
translation of that on-line (probably because of the complexity of the 
Talmud) but this is a good, readable reference that discusses the various 
prohibitions on "mixing" in plain English.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0014_0_14019.html

I had thought all grafting was forbidden, but this suggests that grafting an 
apple to another apple would be biblically acceptable. It also suggests that 
nectarines are forbidden, being a cross between two different species. Sort 
of "bestiality for plants".

I've written all this from an Old-Testament/Jewish perspective. In 
researching this on line (google is my friend) I also found some New 
Testament that seem to assume grafting of olives was commonplace (and okay), 
for instance Romans 11:17.

I also came across an interesting article about grafting that includes quite 
a lot of history and references to grafting in the ancient world.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/janick-papers/c09.pdf

Hope you find that interesting.

Ginda Fisher