North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Mike Levine <mlevine@umich.edu>]

I've read this thread and now I realize that if indeed people are committed
to growing fruit trees from seed and on their own roots and have
successfully done this then perhaps they would be willing to share some of
this seed?  This thread seems to be a debate of idealism vs realism.  Both
have their merits.  Is it possible we can all agree that there are benefits
to doing it both ways?  It's certainly desirable to further our breeding
efforts in this way, but one of the major drawbacks is how long it
takes/how much space it requires/how much work (sowing, growing, tasting,
culling, making crosses, costs/labor/access to ability to sequence &
identify marker genes).  For the backyard grower with just a couple of
trees it makes sense to use grafted trees.  For the fruit enthusiast, it
makes sense to try a bunch of different ways.  I'm constantly wishing I had
more space to grow out trees from seed (soon come), but in the meantime I
plant mostly grafted trees so that I can learn.  Maybe it's shortcut and
I'm missing some things along the way, but we each learn at our own pace
and in our own way.  It's admirable that people are willing to take a stand
and do it their own way, whatever that way may be.  Hey, there's no harm in
trying, is there?  However, I think it makes sense to consider ALL the
tools in our toolboxes.  Why throw out half the tools?  Whenever I'm
missing a tool in my truck, I always find out sooner or later (usually
sooner) that I need it.   So I say pony up, give us the seeds so we can try
it ourselves (after all, seeing is believing), but please don't tell us we
can't try it both ways (from seeds or by using grafting). Does anyone have
a link to the CRFG article?  Does anyone have a catalog or list of
open-pollinated fruit seeds resulting from such breeding?



Mike Levine
Ann Arbor, MI zone 5b



On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm sorry, but with all due respect, the idea that eating fruit from
> grafted clones instead of seedlings is somehow compromising to the health
> qualities of said fruit seems a little off the beaten path of logic to me.
> I would say the opposite is more likely true if varieties were selected for
> more nutritious qualities- Calville Blanc, for instance, has many times the
> vitamin C content of most apple varieties and judging from the flat taste
> of most seedling apples, I suspect seedlings are often nearly devoid of
> this important nutrient.  Without grafting, Calville Blanc would have
> disappeared hundreds of years ago when the original tree died.  Because of
> the huge genetic diversity of apples, CB's seedling offspring would mostly
> be without this attribute and you would have to wait at least 8 years to
> have any idea of the quality of each tree.
>
> The idea of starting with a premise and then trying to find corroborating
> research is not science even when couched in the vocabulary of science.
> More like scientology, but I guess that word's taken.   Quoting serious
> researchers and then inserting your own conclusions in place of the
> conclusion of  the researchers is dishonest or, at least, misguided.  I may
> be wrong, but this is how this discussion sounds to me.
>
> Anyway, I'm a huge supporter of grafting fruit and nut clones to increase
> the efficiency of fruit production and the quality of fruit and nuts.  If I
> lived in Mexico, I might not feel the same, as many tropical fruits do
> produce high quality fruit from seed, according to my limited knowledge (I
> know papayas do well, but if my brother relied on seedling mangoes in his
> part of Kauii  he would usually get no harvest).   Ever tried to get a
> reasonable amount of nut meat from a native black walnut?  If only I could
> digest the shells.
>
> Where's the fluffy one when we need him?
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