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nafex - Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel

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  • From: Michael Dossett <phainopepla@yahoo.com>
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
  • Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 00:06:08 -0800 (PST)

Well I think that argument could be applied to cultivars of just about any of
the fruits that we discuss on this list. Nurseries (even the reputable ones)
and other sources, unfortunately, are often not a reliable source for a
cultivar. Names change, labeling mistakes happen, someone grows out seed
rather than maintaining a clone, or someone just got lazy along the way. All
kinds of things can happen. It's probably more of a problem in the older
varieties because there has been more time for mistakes to have been made and
passed down with those, but even new cultivars are not immune to this problem.

As an example, I've recently been working on developing genetic fingerprints
of black raspberry cultivars as part of my PhD work. From just two different
sources, I have found at least 5 different clones being sold and distributed
as the variety 'Munger'. Four of these came from the same nursery! Both of
these sources are highly visible and reputable, and the differences are much
larger than can be explained by sports or somatic mutation, and there are
probably many more out there that I haven't uncovered yet. This isn't an
isolated case either, there are problems with many of the other cultivars as
well. Unfortunately I've seen this over and over again with all kinds of
things, pear, plum, cranberry, red raspberry.

So I guess my point is that despite all the uncertainties, your best bet is
probably to go with a reputable nursery, even though it may not always be
true to type. If you're planting out seed, however, you're guaranteed you
won't get something true to type, and with most things you'll probably end up
with something inferior (inbreeding depression from selfed seed is a very
real thing in crops that are normally outcrossing).


Michael Dossett
Corvallis, Oregon
www.Mdossettphoto.com
phainopepla@yahoo.com


--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com> wrote:

> From: Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 10:41 PM
> You are probably right but I don't
> have any firm opinion.  Carmine
> Jewel has been propagated from tissue culture but I saw a
> reference
> that seeds have been used.  How do you know the plant
> you ordered is
> real and not a seedling?
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: mijwiz@yahoo.com
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:16:18 -0800 (PST)
>
> >Carmine Jewel is propagated vegetatively. It's
> extremely unlikely
> >that it would breed true from seed. You're free to
> plant seeds from
> >it, since you might get something worth growing, but
> the seedlings
> >won't be Carmine Jewel.
> >
> >I ordered a real Carmine Jewel from St. Lawrence
> Nurseries this
> >spring. They say they have only a few left:
> >http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/bcherries.html
> >
> >Melissa
> >
> >--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
> >> Subject: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
> >> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 5:48 PM
> >> What is the quality and hardiness of
> >> Carmine Jewel bush cherry?  I
> >> have a few seeds of Carmine Jewel which I buried
> in a quart
> >> jar in my
> >> garden in peat moss last fall.  Hopefully, they
> will
> >> sprout in the
> >> spring.  Canadians have a variety of bush
> cherries
> >> developed but US
> >> nurseries are woefully not adept in offering new
> plants.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >     
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