North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Michael Dossett <phainopepla@yahoo.com>]

Well I think that argument could be applied to cultivars of just about any of 
the fruits that we discuss on this list.  Nurseries (even the reputable ones) 
and other sources, unfortunately, are often not a reliable source for a 
cultivar.  Names change, labeling mistakes happen, someone grows out seed 
rather than maintaining a clone, or someone just got lazy along the way.  All 
kinds of things can happen.  It's  probably more of a problem in the older 
varieties because there has been more time for mistakes to have been made and 
passed down with those, but even new cultivars are not immune to this problem.

As an example, I've recently been working on developing genetic fingerprints 
of black raspberry cultivars as part of my PhD work.  From just two different 
sources, I have found at least 5 different clones being sold and distributed 
as the variety 'Munger'.  Four of these came from the same nursery!  Both of 
these sources are highly visible and reputable, and the differences are much 
larger than can be explained by sports or somatic mutation, and there are 
probably many more out there that I haven't uncovered yet.  This isn't an 
isolated case either, there are problems with many of the other cultivars as 
well.  Unfortunately I've seen this over and over again with all kinds of 
things, pear, plum, cranberry, red raspberry.

So I guess my point is that despite all the uncertainties, your best bet is 
probably to go with a reputable nursery, even though it may not always be 
true to type.  If you're planting out seed, however, you're guaranteed you 
won't get something true to type, and with most things you'll probably end up 
with something inferior (inbreeding depression from selfed seed is a very 
real thing in crops that are normally outcrossing).


Michael Dossett
Corvallis, Oregon
www.Mdossettphoto.com
phainopepla@yahoo.com


--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com> wrote:

> From: Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 10:41 PM
> You are probably right but I don't
> have any firm opinion.  Carmine
> Jewel has been propagated from tissue culture but I saw a
> reference
> that seeds have been used.  How do you know the plant
> you ordered is
> real and not a seedling? 
> 
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: mijwiz@yahoo.com
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 20:16:18 -0800 (PST)
> 
> >Carmine Jewel is propagated vegetatively. It's
> extremely unlikely
> >that it would breed true from seed. You're free to
> plant seeds from
> >it, since you might get something worth growing, but
> the seedlings
> >won't be Carmine Jewel.
> >
> >I ordered a real Carmine Jewel from St. Lawrence
> Nurseries this
> >spring. They say they have only a few left:
> >http://www.sln.potsdam.ny.us/bcherries.html
> >
> >Melissa
> >
> >--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Ernest Plutko <ernestplutko@wiktel.com>
> >> Subject: [NAFEX] Carmine Jewel
> >> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 5:48 PM
> >> What is the quality and hardiness of
> >> Carmine Jewel bush cherry?  I
> >> have a few seeds of Carmine Jewel which I buried
> in a quart
> >> jar in my
> >> garden in peat moss last fall.  Hopefully, they
> will
> >> sprout in the
> >> spring.  Canadians have a variety of bush
> cherries
> >> developed but US
> >> nurseries are woefully not adept in offering new
> plants.
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >
> >      
> >_______________________________________________
> >nafex mailing list 
> >nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> >Reproduction of list messages or archives is not
> allowed.
> >This includes distribution on other email lists or
> reproduction on
> >web sites.
> >Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't
> claim you have
> >permission!
> >
> >**YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> >Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are
> discarded.
> >No exceptions.  
> >----
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this
> page (also can
> >be used to change other email options):
> >http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> >
> >File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> >TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
> >Please do not send binary files.
> >Use plain text ONLY in emails!
> >
> >NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list 
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> 
> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> This includes distribution on other email lists or
> reproduction on web sites.
> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim
> you have permission!
> 
> **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
> Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed are
> discarded.
> No exceptions.  
> ----
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of this page
> (also can be used to change other email options):
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
> 
> File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
> TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER VIRUSES!
> Please do not send binary files.
> Use plain text ONLY in emails!
> 
> NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/
>