North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[natelson@stehlinclinic.com]

You are correct as to the origin of the persimmons I have.  Jack Rice sent
these cuttings to me, and the late Lynn Lowrey and I propagated them. 
Jack spelled R-8 as Salavats K1 and R-9 as Kaj-Acik-Anor.  Both of these
are heavy bearers as is R-16 (Kara Bala Miursal).  I think his spellings
are correct, as he took them directly from the original labels at the
Georgia station.  In general, the Russian ones are more productive than
the Iranian ones here in Houston.  I do not have R-6.  I am interested in
the sweet ones, and would appreciate whatever you might be able to send.

                              Regards, Ethan

> The cutting you have must have came from the old pomegrante planting
> (USDA/ARS) in Georgia. They were refered to with "R" for Central
> Asian/Russian and "I" for Iranian varieties. The ones I refered to was
> called R-8 "Salavatski"  and R-9 "Kazake". The Georgia station  found that
> the Iranian pomegranates are more cold hardy than the US varieties but not
> as cold hardy as SOME of the Russian/Central Asian varieties. I also have
> information from the former curator of the Turkmenistan Germplasm Station
> at
> Garri-Gala, Turkmenistan which is much more detailed.
> The Georgia station never had "Agat" or "Sverkhranniy"(means super early
> in
> russian). "Sverkhranniy is not recommended for very cold areas as it is
> soft-seeded and soft-seeded varieties are not very cold hardy, but if you
> are trying to grow a pomegranate in a pot in the very cold areas or in
> cool
> costal area's it might be useful to have a variety that is super early
> (August) in ripening so the heat requirement is not so great.
> "Agat is a variety that is soft-seed but is low-growing and is intended
> for
> areas with a snow cover all winter for insulation so the extreme cold
> weather cannot get to it. It would not be as useful in cold area with no
> or
> little snow cover. It was intended for high-density plantings where it was
> found that it would out-produce some of  the standard varieties. It has a
> good taste but is a little on the tart side if it does not have enough
> summer heat.
>  I will try to get cutting of "Sverkhranniy" or lets just call it "Super
> Early" to you in February. I will send an advance e-mail.  I might add a
> another soft-seeded variety if you will tell me if you like sweet or if
> you
> like sweet-tart taste and do you favor high production. There is only one
> sweet, soft-seeded with high production that I have available that should
> work in your mild area and the is Spanish Sweet (also called Papershell) a
> US variety that was favored by Jack Rice in North Carolina and is a great
> but not for very cold areas. Most of the very productive varieties are
> sweet-tart. I have several taste test results avialable for a number of
> the
> Central Asian/Russian Varieties that is very helpful.  I have put your
> name
> address down for the cuttings in February.
> I have a question for you, if I might. Do you have R-6 Al-Sirin-Nar and if
> so what is your impression? Thanks for your interest.
> Richard Ashton
> 7b/8a Central Texas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <natelson@stehlinclinic.com>
> To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pomegranate
>
>
>> Dear Marie,
>>
>>     Several years ago I received cuttings of 22 numbered and named
>> Russian (15) and Iranian (7)pomegranates.  One turned out to be a
>> dwarf and it is the least cold hardy of the bunch (yes, we
>> occasionally have freezes here).  It lives, but has never fruited.
>> It might be useful as a dwarfing rootstock.  Their names are all as
>> unpronounceable as Sverkhranniy.  I have fruited virtually all of the
>> rest and several are very large and heavily productive, and some are
>> sweet.  The closest to your spelling are R-31 (Saartuzski) and R-5
>> (Sakerdze).  Despite their being collected from very cold climates,
>> here in Houston(zone 9)they ripen at the same time as well-known
>> varieties such as Cloud and Eversweet.
>>
>>     If you can spare a cutting of Sverkhranniy, I would like to try it
>> with its cousins, and see if it is any earlier to ripen. Moreover, if
>> anyone wants any of mine, I would be happy to provide cuttings.  My
>> address is Ethan Natelson, 8707 Wateka Drive, Houston, TX 77074.  I
>> would reimburse you for any postage, etc. Thank you.
>>
>>                             Regards, Ethan
>>
>>> As you know, zone 4/5 is just too cold for in ground pomegranates, pots
>>> are the only way.
>>> There is a variety called "Severkhranniy" the name means super early
>>> that
>>> ripens in some areas in early August. It is a sweet tasting variety.
>>> The
>>> very early ripening, dispenses with the need for long summers and some
>>> of
>>> the heat requirements. Now as to blooming and setting fruit, most of
>>> the
>>> varieties that have been tried were breed in either Florida or
>>> California,
>>> the orignal wild pomegranates in Central Asia have been blooming and
>>> setting fruit in a cold climate for centuries. The varieties that have
>>> been breed/found in the colder areas of Russia/Central Asia are a
>>> better
>>> bet to bloom and set fruit in cooler area it appears. The pomegranate
>>> is
>>> a
>>> very adaptable plant if natural selection is used. There are very low
>>> growing wild pomegranates growing in areas of Central Asia with winter
>>> temperatures of  15 below(F).
>>> You are very right about the standard US varieties not being worth the
>>> trouble in these colder areas.
>>> There are a lot of other factors that those I just mentioned above, to
>>> achieve good fruiting, that is why site testing is needed for these
>>> Russian/Central Asian varieties.
>>> Richard Ashton
>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>   From: lee reich
>>>   To: North American Fruit Explorers
>>>   Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 9:48 AM
>>>   Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pomegranate
>>>
>>>
>>>   I got around the winter kill problem for pomegranates here in zone
>>> 4/5
>>> by growing my plant in a pot which I kept in cool storage after it went
>>> dormant for the winter. The problem is that after 5-10 years, the plant
>>> had still never bloomed. I finally got rid of the plant. Any
>>> suggestions, beyond the obvious, for the lack of blossoming?
>>>
>>>
>>>   It seems to me that another limitation for pomegranate in the in the
>>> northern areas of eastern U.S. would be that there would be
>>> insufficient
>>> heat and time to ripen the fruits well. Not to mention untimely rains
>>> splitting the fruits open. All of which is why I chose to grow mine in
>>> pots, where I could get the plants growing early and then ripen them,
>>> if
>>> needed, in the greenhouse.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Lee Reich, PhD
>>>   www.leereich.com
>>>
>>>
>>>   Books by Lee Reich:
>>>   Uncommon Fruits for Every Garden
>>>   A Northeast Gardener's Year
>>>   The Pruning Book
>>>   Weedless Gardening
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Dec 2, 2005, at 11:03 PM, MARIE ASHTON wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>     Are you in 6a or 6b?    6b is down to -5 and there are some
>>> possible
>>> varieties that might work. 6a at down to -10 is a little chancey but
>>> worth a try. Since pomegranates bear fruit on new wood you do not have
>>> to worry about buds being killed. If you have a winter snow cover then
>>> there is also a variety that might  work (under the snow cover).
>>>     But to state again 6b is a good possibility with the new (in the
>>> US)
>>> Russian/Central Asian varieties. The varieties that I would recommend
>>> are "Kazake" or "Salavatski". "Agat" if under snow cover (a low
>>> growing, good fruiting
>>>     pomegranate). If want to try one let me know and I will try to see
>>> that you get one to try, but pomegranates like a lot of fruit trees do
>>> not reach their best cold hardiness until about the third year and
>>> would need to be somewhat protected the first two years.
>>>     Richard Ashton
>>>       ----- Original Message -----
>>>       From: Ginda Fisher
>>>       To: North American Fruit Explorers
>>>       Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:47 PM
>>>       Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Pomegranate
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       On Dec 1, 2005, at 2:02 PM, MARIE ASHTON wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>         How many of you are interested in pomegranates. It seems that
>>> many
>>> people think they are too much trouble to eat. They are somewhat
>>> troublesome, but some think they are worth the trouble.   The
>>> easiest  way to utilize them is to juice them with a common
>>> citrus/orange press, that's just a pressure press not the kind
>>> with the reamer as that kind will get the partation material and
>>> skin into the juice and that is bitter (tannin). There are a lot
>>> of new varieties available now and some cold hardy ones.
>>>         Richard Ashton
>>>         zone 7b/8a Central Texas
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       I am interested in pomegranate, but here in zone 6, I think I
>>> will
>>> have to content myself with indoor plants.  If anyone knows of a
>>> pomegranate hardy to zone 6, though, I'd be excited to try it.
>>>
>>>
>>>       Ginda
>>>       eastern MA, zone 6
>>>
>>>
>>>
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