msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Mounted search and rescue
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- From: "Irvin Lichtenstein " <ilichten1@verizon.net>
- To: "'Mounted search and rescue'" <msar-riders@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR
- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 00:44:39 -0500
One does not have to forget an obsolete
technique, just not use it anymore. In 1979 the only technique used was
lines and grids. Then we got air scent dogs which proved useless in our
area until they learned how to discriminate. We started using mystical
trackers and then pragmatic trackers (different schools of mental state while
tracking) to support our foot hasty teams. In 1986 we started with
horses. What I said was I could teach a spontaneous volunteer or a
volunteer firefighter, to line search in ten minutes, not the 8-16 hours
required by some courses. If I have 16 hours of training time I would
much rather spend it on tracking than line searching training. We don’t do evidence searches [don’t
tell the DA that, he gave us $5000 for a radio so we could] because there are
plenty of cadets in the regional police academy who need field experience
shuffling through the grass if the detectives don’t find it with their metal
detectors, radar, and other toys. We try to avoid looking for known dead
people because of the time it takes from volunteers afterward at inquests and
trials. I have been involved with developing standards,
both military and civilian for years. I helped invent the software
development life cycle standards and the project management techniques used on
AEGIS, FAA ATC, Seawolf, and other projects. I was a founding member of ASTM
F32, a FEMA volunteer executive reservist for over 30 years, a member of NASAR
for around 30 years by now, used to be a member of the IAFC, am a member of the
NFPA. I was even president of the PA SAR Council once upon a time, and
the first fire instructor accredited to teach search management. I may
possibly be the only Senior Member of the IEEE who does not have an engineering
or physical sciences degree. And, unlike most of the NASAR officials, I
have never been paid as a search person. I do get paid to teach at the
fire academy on the rare occasions a search course is offered. I know search, and a few other things too.
Any attempt to top down standards from an organization that has little or no
respect as a user oriented organization will result in destroying what little volunteer
search is left in the country. When USAR teams were first proposed they
were to be volunteers from the region. When FEMA finally accepted the
idea it became a response for career personnel. Philadelphia Fire
withdrew its application for funding until the rules were changed to allow it
to use the equipment for non-FEMA responses.
There is no national standard for firefighting. There are two accepted
tests against the NFPA standards for career firefighters, but they are not
required by any national authority because national authorities don’t fight
structural fires or vehicle fires. They fight forest fires on national lands,
and often do it with contractors who are neither federal firefighters or local
government personnel and until recently were not considered public safety
personnel. The Fed DOJ is hinting that what PA calls Special Fire
Police, persons trained to protect the fire scene from intrusion and take the
hit if needed are not “fire suppression personnel” and therefore
when they get run over on the highway covering our rescue personnel they are
not entitled to LODD benefits. The new PA EMS Act’s SAR provisions were written by one person who is a dilettante in
the search field, but who happens to be an MD and thinks all searchers should
be ALS qualified before they step off the truck. If that makes you a better searcher fine,
all I think it makes you is an unpracticed medic since few SAR teams run 400
ALS calls a year. Looking at the carrot—grant money,
the feds don’t give SAR NGO’s any money now so what do we lose? The
major direct grant programs, AFA and SAFER exclude any organization that is not
a municipal fire department or municipal I don’t know who the consultants are
that being hired to advise governments about these needs to credential
wilderness SAR people but they have little or no credence in the on the ground
community and if they continue to work in the shadows they will destroy what
little expertise exists in the community. I think we should sue for fraud
the next SAR expert who gets hired by a government agency without publicly
being vetted as to his/her credentials. On the other hand anyone who
wants my CV can have it, all 14 pages of it. And all my publications are
available from the publishers (at least the ones who haven’t gone
bankrupt). My rates are cheap and I can be insured by
Lloyds if needed to protect your agency’s money. Irv Lichtenstein From:
msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:msar-riders-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pennbo@verizon.net |
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
pennbo, 03/10/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR, Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/11/2010
- <Possible follow-up(s)>
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Una Smith, 03/11/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR, Finkle, Tomi <CTR>, 03/11/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Lois Guyon, 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Lila Corey, 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
- Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR, Una Smith, 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Lila Corey, 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
- [MSAR] Trying out backpacks, Una Smith, 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Lila Corey, 03/12/2010
-
Re: [MSAR] Standards for mounted SAR,
Irvin Lichtenstein , 03/12/2010
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