Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

market-farming - Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why it's a poor pro gra...

market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: Market Farming

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: "maury sheets" <maurysheets AT verizon.net>
  • To: "'Market Farming'" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why it's a poor pro gra...
  • Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:21:54 -0400

Todd,

 

I have been organic since I was ten years old, that’s about 54 years now.  I will never be certified organic now that the USDA is running it.  I could handle liars in the past and did not ask for government intervention (be careful what  you wish for, you just may get it).  I am an ecologist and have many more years in organics than a few pencil pushers that think they know everything because it is in a book.  Several of the regulations should not even be there since they are promulgated by bad science.

Example: calcium nitrate that I use in a closed system in my hydroponic system is not considered organic.  Why? Because it can leach into the groundwater when applied outside and a heavy rain follows (which is true).  I neither use it outside nor let it reach the groundwater, no matter, still not organic because the book says so.  Manure is fine to spread on the ground and is considered organic, but if is spread when the plants don’t need it, then the nitrogen is converted to nitrate and that is flushed into the groundwater if heavy rains follow- go figure.

No I am not against CNG (good option).  And as long as you are not telling your customers it is organic, then it is fine.  My line is: “I am as organic as organic can be without being called organic”.

My concern is saving the planet, not saving little small sections that consider themselves set apart from the rest of us.  Example:  Human waste is one of the best fertilizers on the planet.  Not organic however.  I do not understand how a person can do everything organically to their body, and their waste is still not organic.  Municipal waste can have the heavy metals removed (just raise the Ph and the metals will precipitate out) and the effluent digested and you can have a wonderful pathogen free (to a log -3 or log -4 if digested correctly) fertilizer.  We are in a closed system on this planet and you cannot dump everything you don’t want to be exposed to on someone else’s land and keep yours pristine.  Solutions must be planet wide, nor organic farm wide, if we are to provide a planet to future generations worth living on.

Some would say we have to start small and build up, which we do need to do, but not with an organic structure that sets itself apart when it should be integrating itself into the rest of the system.  I probably won’t make a lot of organic friends with this attitude.

There are problems that are nothing more than tradeoffs at this point.  Example:  I can grow tomatoes all winter in a greenhouse for local product, cost about $10,000 in fossil fuels.  We can truck tomatoes in all winter, cost about $10,000 in fossil fuels.  Which of these propositions is the correct one for the planet as a whole?  I don’t know.  The correct answer is probably not eating tomatoes until they are back in season again, but we are most likely past that with the consumers and fast food joints we have today.  We have to do the best we can and it is not always easy.  My philosophy.  (and yes, I read Rachel Carson too).

 

Maury Sheets

Woodland Produce

South jersey- “ as organic as organic can be without being called organic”

 

 

 

From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Todd Lister
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 11:10 PM
To: Market Farming
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...

 

Maury,
I consider myself a rabid environmentalist who believes the conventional American food chain is a REAL threat to human health. I've been off the deep end since I read "Silent Spring" in about 1969. I grow organically and I am committed to the practices that guide organic growing.
It is my understanding that the regs on the use of the term do not apply to coversations, written or not.Labeling and adverts and documents, yes. Please tell me if you believe that I am wrong about that. If you are familiar with CNG you know that it is based on the same methods prescribed by the NOP. Is it the term "strictly" you object to? I am headed, begrudgingly toward USDA. I assume you are and so are dissing CNG. NO?
Todd Lister
Vesta Ga

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:51 PM, maury sheets <maurysheets AT verizon.net> wrote:

Todd,

 

I thought you said you were Naturally Grown”.   Now you say you are “strictly organic”.  If you are not certified by the USDA as organic, you cannot use the proprietary term “organic”.  I am confused.  I do not need an explanation of the term “certified Naturally Grown”, I know what that is.

 

Maury Sheets

Woodland Produce

South jersey

 

 

From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Todd Lister
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 4:31 PM
To: Market Farming
Subject: Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...

 

Phil,
I gotta say you sound cynical as hell.  I can tell you right now that at 59 I have only been farming for under 5 years and I'm strictly organic and your perspective has little connection to today's program. I got a house and there are very few restrictions on this program and the ones there are have not caused me any grief or cost me any money. In fact my production went up considerably as has my income. I am aggressively growing food 12 months a year in my houses and have no overbearing guidelines from the NRCS.
The ONLY things they mandate in my area are things I'd do anyway. Erosion control and record keeping. I've read some posts that referred to a number of rules and regs that simply don't apply in my state
I can only speak about my experience but this program has the potential to help alot of farmers and has and that includes those who did not get one of these houses. I am cofident that when they eventually publish their findings that a lot of folks will consider HT growing to improve their bottom line.
The idea that a gov program is necessarily an imposition rings hollow for me.
Not sure how you cut profits 200%.
Todd Lister
Vesta Ga

 


_______________________________________________
Market-farming mailing list
Market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/market-farming

Market Farming List Archives may be found here:
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/market-farming/
Unsubscribe from the list here (you will need to login in with your email
address and password):
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/market-farming

 




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page