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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why it's a poor pro gra...
- From: "maury sheets" <maurysheets AT verizon.net>
- To: "'Market Farming'" <market-farming AT lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why it's a poor pro gra...
- Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 12:21:54 -0400
Todd, I have been organic since I was ten years old, that’s about 54 years now. I will never be certified organic now that the USDA is running it. I could handle liars in the past and did not ask for government intervention (be careful what you wish for, you just may get it). I am an ecologist and have many more years in organics than a few pencil pushers that think they know everything because it is in a book. Several of the regulations should not even be there since they are promulgated by bad science. Example: calcium nitrate that I use in a closed system in my hydroponic system is not considered organic. Why? Because it can leach into the groundwater when applied outside and a heavy rain follows (which is true). I neither use it outside nor let it reach the groundwater, no matter, still not organic because the book says so. Manure is fine to spread on the ground and is considered organic, but if is spread when the plants don’t need it, then the nitrogen is converted to nitrate and that is flushed into the groundwater if heavy rains follow- go figure. No I am not against CNG (good option). And as long as you are not telling your customers it is organic, then it is fine. My line is: “I am as organic as organic can be without being called organic”. My concern is saving the planet, not saving little small sections that consider themselves set apart from the rest of us. Example: Human waste is one of the best fertilizers on the planet. Not organic however. I do not understand how a person can do everything organically to their body, and their waste is still not organic. Municipal waste can have the heavy metals removed (just raise the Ph and the metals will precipitate out) and the effluent digested and you can have a wonderful pathogen free (to a log -3 or log -4 if digested correctly) fertilizer. We are in a closed system on this planet and you cannot dump everything you don’t want to be exposed to on someone else’s land and keep yours pristine. Solutions must be planet wide, nor organic farm wide, if we are to provide a planet to future generations worth living on. Some would say we have to start small and build up, which we do need to do, but not with an organic structure that sets itself apart when it should be integrating itself into the rest of the system. I probably won’t make a lot of organic friends with this attitude. There are problems that are nothing more than tradeoffs at this point. Example: I can grow tomatoes all winter in a greenhouse for local product, cost about $10,000 in fossil fuels. We can truck tomatoes in all winter, cost about $10,000 in fossil fuels. Which of these propositions is the correct one for the planet as a whole? I don’t know. The correct answer is probably not eating tomatoes until they are back in season again, but we are most likely past that with the consumers and fast food joints we have today. We have to do the best we can and it is not always easy. My philosophy. (and yes, I read Rachel Carson too). Maury Sheets Woodland Produce South jersey- “ as organic as organic can be without being called organic” From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Todd Lister Maury, On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:51 PM, maury sheets <maurysheets AT verizon.net> wrote: Todd, I thought you said you were Naturally Grown”. Now you say you are “strictly organic”. If you are not certified by the USDA as organic, you cannot use the proprietary term “organic”. I am confused. I do not need an explanation of the term “certified Naturally Grown”, I know what that is. Maury Sheets Woodland Produce South jersey From: market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:market-farming-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Todd Lister Phil,
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...
, (continued)
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...,
Todd Lister, 09/07/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...,
Deb Taft, 09/07/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...,
Todd Lister, 09/07/2011
- [Market-farming] NOW: Opinions on NOP WAS: A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra..., Roots Farm, 09/08/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...,
Road's End Farm, 09/08/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra..., Todd Lister, 09/08/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra..., Todd Lister, 09/11/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra..., Todd Lister, 09/12/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...,
Todd Lister, 09/07/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra..., sals3, 09/08/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...,
Deb Taft, 09/07/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why it's a poor pro gra..., maury sheets, 09/08/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] A Farmer's Opinion on NRCS and why its a poor pro gra...,
Todd Lister, 09/07/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic",
Road's End Farm, 09/08/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic",
Vern and Amy, 09/09/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic",
Road's End Farm, 09/09/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic",
Vern and Amy, 09/10/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic", sals3, 09/10/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic", Mike Brabo, 09/10/2011
- [Market-farming] CNG and Apiaries (was: clarification of use of "organic"), Richard Stewart, 09/11/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] CNG and Apiaries (was: clarification of use of"organic"), sals3, 09/11/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] CNG and Apiaries (was: clarification of use of"organic"), Richard Stewart, 09/11/2011
- Re: [Market-farming] CNG and Apiaries (was: clarification of useof"organic"), sals3, 09/11/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic",
Vern and Amy, 09/10/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic",
Road's End Farm, 09/09/2011
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Re: [Market-farming] clarification of use of "organic",
Vern and Amy, 09/09/2011
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