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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] Ethanol's Dirty Little Secrets ---

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  • From: "Greg and April" <gregandapril@earthlink.net>
  • To: "Healthy soil and sustainable growing" <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Ethanol's Dirty Little Secrets ---
  • Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 22:52:48 -0600

Did you miss the part that they are burning wood waste with the coal?

Please recall that I also mentioned the local mass transient ( was run by the local government up to last fall ) started testing of electrical busses that use ethanol powered fuel cells a year and a half ago.

I know we can't count on government, but, it's not like many parts of government are not at least exploring the use of alternative fuels, and it's a step in the right direction. Frankly I believe that they need all the encouragement they can get, just because there are to many people that are willing to criticize alternative fuels for what ever reason.

Think about it, people will criticize the use of alternative fuels just because something as simple as distribution is not set up. Well if we keep criticizing it, they won't use it at all, and so no distribution will ever be set up. Just a nasty circle of negativity, that prevents anything from getting done.

What if the early pioneers of no-till or permaculture listen to all the objections and the criticizing of their methods? It's the same way with alternative energy. I wouldn't be surprised if early oil drillers, had much the same problem with coal users and horse & buggy people.

Greg H.



----- Original Message ----- From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 21:30
Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Ethanol's Dirty Little Secrets ---



You're talking about energy conservation there. No alternative fuel sources
involved. We need conservation, and desperately. It's equally obvious
utilities can't afford to invest in those conservation measures for the
whole country or any significant part of it, and simply won't. And for
coal to take up the slack in energy production they'd have to stripmine
tens of thousands of square miles and pollute like mad, which isn't going
to happen. Nobody will rebut the unbelievably prohibitive cost of
alternative energy infrastructure, not on this list or any other list.

You can't count on government, industry or utilities to save us from the
destruction that increasingly higher oil and gas prices is bringing. Count
on yourself. I've brought up the ethanol business again just to make the
point, nobody's coming to save us. We have ourselves, our families, our
communities. The sooner some of us learn to live on the land, relearn
what's been lost, and develop our community networks, the better.

paul, tradingpost@riseup.net
---------------
The care of the Earth is our most ancient and most worthy, and after all
our most pleasing responsibility. To cherish what remains of it and to
foster its renewal is our only hope.
- Wendell Berry
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 7/14/2006 at 8:52 PM Greg and April wrote:

You mean like the high up front cost?

There are plenty of work arounds for that.

A year ago last spring, my family received a new furnace free. The
local
utility works with a nonprofit organization to do a free heating
evaluation,
and air infiltration tests of the house. Because of the age and
condition
of the furnace, it eligible to be replaced, at low or no cost depending on

the income of the family. We fell in the no cost bracket. They also
provided blow-in insulation to areas of the house that had none and that
we
couldn't get to, and brought a crew in to seal the furnace ducts.

Had we fallen into the low cost bracket, our bill would have remained the
same until the cost of the furnace was paid for by the savings the new
furnace.

The same program replaced all of the old toilets with low flush toilets,
and
added weather stripping around all of the doors, and most of the windows
than needed it, and replaced our old refrigerator with a brand new one,
because the old one used more than a given amount of electricity.

What does the utility company get out it? Better efficiency of existing

electrical lines, with out having to upgrade them, lower cost because if a

sever cold spell comes they don't have to buy as much NG or electricity at

current market prices, and lower maintance cost for existing lines.
According to the people I talked to, they estimate that they save about
between $15 to $50 a year in maintaince and up grade costs, per house,
that
goes through the program.

A program similar to this can help on a bigger scale.


Granted it would be allot cheaper with new construction, but, I would bet
even the old construction could be upgraded, and if push came to shove I
bet
it would be.

I don't know what it is like where you live, but, here we have 2 power
plants, in town. One is a coal fired plant that they have been
experimenting with adding wood waste to the coal ( more electricity - for
the same or less pollution ). The other is a NG/propane operation to
take
un-expected electrical demands so they don't have to buy more electricity
at
current market prices instead of buying a couple of months a head of time,

when it's cheaper. Even if they only used the excess heat from the coal

plant, to heat the city and county down town, your only looking at less
than
a mile distance for 80% of the city and major county buildings - in most
cases it's only a few hundred yards from the coal fired power plant
property.

If even only the city and county property, is heated, that is less tax
money
that is spent on fuel, and better efficiency from the entire system.

Greg H.




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