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livingontheland - Re: [Livingontheland] Ethanol's Dirty Little Secrets ---

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Subject: Healthy soil and sustainable growing

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  • From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
  • To: livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Ethanol's Dirty Little Secrets ---
  • Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:04:25 -0600


You don't see the glaring holes in those ideas?

paul, tradingpost@riseup.net

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 7/14/2006 at 7:13 PM Greg and April wrote:

>Assume that the local houses use the equivalent of a ground source heat
>pump, to recover heat from the water pumped under the ground from the
>power
>plant, as long as the water is over 40*, heat can be recovered from it -
>this means that even as the water is cooled, heat from the soil will keep
>the water warm enough to supply heat. In theory, all the power plant
>does
>is act as a reservoir of warmth. In theory houses even 10 miles could
>benefit, as it would take allot of heat pumping ( for along time ) to
>lower
>the ground temperature far enough to where it wouldn't be worth it - the
>power plant just keeps the ground warm.
>
>Heat pumps are an expensive one time cost, but, depending on local energy
>costs, savings of hundreds or thousands of dollars each year might be
>possible. Using the Citrus farmer in Nebraska as an example, he was
>running $400 a month in the winter, but, now runs $200 for the entire
>winter. Assuming a four month winter season, that's a savings of over
>$1200 a year.
>
>
>Do you have friends that drive, and change their oil? Any local Jiffy
>Lube, or service stations that change oil? Transmition fluid burns
>hotter
>than fuel oil - I bet that local transmition repair places have allot that

>is removed from trannies while they are being worked on ( use trannie
>fluid
>in a waste oil heater, don't try and burn it in a vehicle ).
>
>Any local McDonalds, Burger King, that cooks french fries in vegetable
>oil?
>Any local oriental restraunt that cooks with oil? It doesn't matter if
>it
>isn't produced locally, the customers buying the french fries are the ones

>buying the transportation cost of the vegtable oil to your location - many

>fast food restraunts have to pay someone to take it away. I know people

>that are paying $ .50 ( fifty cents ) a gallon for waste veggie oil ( WVO
>),
>then they filter it and use it in there diesel vehicles, after slight
>modification to the engine. The modifications are not hard, and anyone
>that knows their way around engines can do them.
>http://www.greasel.com/FAQ.html
>
>Burn WVO in diesel engine to generate electricity, then use the cooling
>liquid to heat your house / greenhouse in the winter.
>
>
>
>Ok, so you spend all of your time in the garden, what about trading some
>fresh veggies for a waste product that you can use for fuel?
>
>If you have a fireplace, I bet, that you could trade fresh veggies for
>split
>wood.
>
>Don't forget, barter is not taxable.
>
>
>Look and see where they waste is, and then ask yourself, how can I use the

>waste?
>
>It's just like feeding a cow to make milk. If you only use the milk,
>your
>wasting manure that can be used in your gardens, and the meat that comes
>from the calf every year.
>
>In the case of feeding the engine to make electricity, if you then use the

>heat to warn the house/greenhouse, you improve you over all efficiency of
>the system.
>
>
>Greg H.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "TradingPostPaul" <tradingpost@riseup.net>
>To: <livingontheland@lists.ibiblio.org>
>Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:42
>Subject: Re: [Livingontheland] Ethanol's Dirty Little Secrets ---
>
>
>>
>> The vast majority of business and homes aren't anywhere near power
>plants.
>> And how far can you pump heat without losing all of it? Now Ken
>described
>> more liveable communities in his post, and maybe that's the way of the
>> future.
>>
>> We will need local or home heat/electricity generation as a fallback, I
>> agree. But it means cutting our power and heating needs to the bone
>> anyway,
>> right? If I'm putting all I can into food growing, where do I produce
>> biofuels? The wind here blows in the spring. Not a breath of air today,
>or
>> all month. PV costs too much for me to install. Waste motor oil? How
much
>> will I have if my driving is reduced to almost nothing for lack of
>> gasoline? We don't throw away any vegetable oil because we don't use
any.
>> And it's not produced locally either. Hydro? I'm an hour from the Rio
>> Grande but nobody dams that up for hydro. I'm afraid NONE of these
>> alternatives have a place here. They say they're funding a big wind farm

>> in
>> eastern NM, so maybe we'll get some of that. Or not.
>>
>> paul, tradingpost@riseup.net
>
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