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["Lynn Wigglesworth" <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>]

I guess I'm still confused about this. I've never seen an "original" birth 
certificate. My state doesn't issue them, and apparently, neither does 
Hawaii. In fact, the website for that Hawaiian Homestead program states that 
Hawaii no longer issues 'long form' birth certificates. After my children 
were born, PA sent me official, legal, birth certificates, and they look 
just like Obama's. They show the county and state of birth, and are signed 
by a state official, not a hospital.

I couldn't produce a 'long form' birth certificate either, because my state 
doesn't issue them. There's no option to get any other kind of birth 
certificate in Pennsylvania other than what I have; what they issue meets 
the requirements of the State Department to prove citizenship (I got a 
passport with it).I think many people are talking at cross-purposes as to 
what is a 'real' birth certificate. I think every state is different as to 
what they issue; maybe that's why people can't agree on what a 'real' birth 
certificate looks like.

Lynn Wigglesworth
Tioga Co. PA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <DSanner106 AT aol.com>
To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Homestead] Birthers


> I have had to produce an original, notarized birth certificate for every
> job
> I have held in the last 15 years or so, When I worked for the state, 
> unlike
> the Presidency, none of my jobs required I be born in the USA to hold.
> I also had to produce one to enroll in each of the two colleges I 
> attended.
> What is the
> big deal, he can solve it all by actually producing an original. The only
> one we
> have seen was not signed off on by anyone working at the hospital, and is
> dated
> 2007. It is a fact that four separate lawfirms were hired to prevent his
> having to produce
> these documents and they are not cheap to employ. The cases did not make 
> it
> to
> trial because they are invoking the rights of the office of president to
> classify his Birth
> certificate, all college records including enrollment paperwork and 
> grades,
> his passport
> and travel documents, his adoption paperwork etc etc. Once the judges saw
> the evidence
> could not be produced for trial, the cases were dismissed. There was no
> ruling on the case
> itself, only on whether the case was viable, so this is absolutely no sign
> that the cases
> were invalid. Can anyone give one reason we, the people employing the
> president, don't have
> a right to see the same documents employers all over the country 
> require???
> What is the
> big secret here?  I used to laugh at the birthers and assumed it was  all
> hogwash, The coverup
> we are all witnessing has changed my mind on this. he must be hiding
> something, but what??
>
> Drew
>
>
> In a message dated 7/30/2009 3:34:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com writes:
>
> I don't  follow politics that closely, but, again, is there evidence that
> he
> HAS  spent all that money to keeps records sealed? I've read it in many
> places,  but just because people say it, doesn't make it true. All the
> 'birther'  cases have been thrown out before they ever got to court, so I
> doubt he's  spent much on them. I've read that the State of Hawaii sealed
> his
> birth  certificate because they didn't want unauthorized people rifling
> through  their records. How much DOES the public have the right to know? 
> DO
> they  have the right to go through non-public documents (school records 
> and
>
> such)? I don't know.
>
> I'm convinced that his birth certificate is  legal and real and proves him
> to
> be a citizen born in Hawaii.  Obama  has gotten what the state issues when
> you request a birth certificate...it  is the ONLY birth document they give
> out. Hawaii no longer issues the  'long form' birth certificates, so I'm
> not
> sure what else he can 'show'.  Pennsylvania also doesn't give out a 'long
> form'...or rather, their 'long  form' is what my kids have, which has
> exactly
> the same info as Obama's. I  apparently have Pennsylvania's 'short form',
> which doesn't have the  parents' names on it...it still got me a passport.
>
> He lived in  Indonesia, and his youth and his own family are like a United
> Nations...that could explain his foreign friends. He's more comfortable
> than
> most with foreigners.
>
> I was impressed again with Obama on his  backpedaling with the "police
> acted
> stupidly" remark. The man digs his way  out of a faux pas better than
> anyone
> I know. He is pretty good at what he  does (I'm still not sure what that
> is).
> I'm not especially happy with his  policies (I will NEVER understand how
> you
> have to spend money to avoid  bankruptcy...it wouldn't work for me!), but
> he
> sure is a smooth  talker.
>
> Lynn Wigglesworth
> Tioga Co. PA
> ----- Original Message  ----- 
> From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
> To: "Homestead  List" <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009  11:43 AM
> Subject: [Homestead] Birthers
>
>
> > Since we were  discussing this a week or so ago, and since I know some of
> > you don't  read Fox, I thought I would post this EDITORIAL about the
> > birther  movement here.  I had not made the connection between Obama's
> >  college records and financial aid.  I wondered how he had been able  to
> > afford it, but I had not given it too much thought.  Also, it  seemed to
> > me that he had a lot of international friends, more than the  average
> > American college student of the day.  Foreign students  can be
> > cliquish(at my 2 year college, like Oxy was to Obama, all the  foreign
> > students joined one fraternity/sorority pair-and many were  paired
> > together as roommates if possible.) just like everyone else,  and had he
> > enrolled as an foreign born student, that would certainly  explain all of
> > those non-American roommates and friends, provide scads  of financial
> > aide, and explain why he his spending a lot of money  covering it up..it
> > is just one more piece of circumstance in the  pie.
> >
> > "Can anyone explain why it is smarter for Obama to spend  tens of
> > thousands of dollars and man-hours defending the suits when he  can win
> > the lawsuit for free by showing the original  documents?"
> >
> >   http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/07/29/tommy-seno-obama-birthers/
> >
> >  It is a good question, one that the MSM should be asking/pressing, but
> >  isn't.
> >
> > When all is said and done, years from now, I think we  will fault the
> > media for cowtowing to administrations and  organizations instead of
> > fighting for the people's right to  know.  A media backlash is coming.
> >
> >  Bev
> >
> > > Obama's to Blame for the Birther  Movement
> > >
> > > Obama can end the "birthers" controversy in  one single day by
> > > releasing the original documents, but for some  inexplicable reason he
> > >  refuses, and the love-struck media  never ask him why...
> > >
> > > Trust but  verify.
> > >
> > > -- Ronald Reagan
> > >
> > > It's  good practice to take a person at his word until someone shows
> > > you  proof he is lying.
> > >
> > > Barack Obama says he was born in  Hawaii, and since no one has shown
> > > any proof he was born in Kenya  or elsewhere, it's OK to conclude he
> > > was born in  Hawaii.
> > >
> > > Sure his grammar school records show that he  was enrolled as an
> > > Indonesian Muslim, but some people will say  anything to get their kid
> > >  in the right school.  It  doesn't really answer the question.
> > >
> > > It's OK though for  others not to use my deferential standard and
> > > continue to question  whether Obama was born in Hawaii.  We aren't
> > > talking about a  12-year-old qualifying to play Little League here.
> > > There is a  Constitutional mandate that the President be a
> > > natural-born  citizen, and if Obama is not one, he certainly will have
> > >   committed the biggest fraud since the White Sox threw the World
> > >  Series.
> > >
> > > The reason why people still question Obama's  citizen status is
> > > one-fold:  "President Transparency" has  refused to release any
> > > original documents on the matter.  He  can end the controversy in a
> > > day by releasing original documents,  but for some inexplicable reason
> > >  he refuses, and his  love-struck media never asks him why he won't.
> > > The media instead  spends hell-bent hours on making the Birther
> > > movement look like  fringy, conspiracy-hungry kooks.
> > >
> > > You have to admit  though, even if you are a devout Obama-bot, Obama's
> > >  refusal  to release any original documents makes for a newsworthy
> > > story by  itself.
> > >
> > > If he really wants the Birthers to shut up, he  has the power to do it
> > >  by releasing the original documents.  Why not just do it then? It's a
> > >  simple task. Why not get rid  of a conversation that has been with
> > > America since the  campaign?
> > >
> > > The issue is the subject of several  lawsuits, which only seek a peek
> > > at original documents. Can anyone  explain why it is smarter for Obama
> > >  to spend tens of  thousands of dollars and man-hours defending the
> > > suits when he can  win the lawsuit for free by showing the original
> > >  documents?
> > >
> > > By defending the lawsuits and not showing  the documents, Obama feeds
> > > the suspicion of those who already  think he is lying.  That's why
> > > this issue has the power to  linger, and that's Obama's fault alone.
> > >
> > > Let's look at  what Obama has released, and you will see they are
> > > hearsay  documents and not best evidence.
> > >
> > > The Birth  Certificate: The certificate put on the Internet by Obama
> > > and held  up by the media was created in 2007.  In the lower left
> > >  corner of the form there is reference to a Hawaiian statute that  was
> > > revised in November of 2001, and if you look closely at the  front you
> > >  can see bleeding through from the back the date  stamp from 2007 when
> > >  the document was created.  It's a  certification that an original
> > > does exit.
> > >
> > >  So the the Birthers say:  "Fine.  Then show us the original."   Obama
> > > says, "No."  Why?
> > >
> > > The Newspaper  Announcements: Two birth announcements from Hawaiian
> > > local papers  show Obama's birth.  The Birthers have a couple of good
> > >  arguments about them.  First, Hawaii is where Obama's  grandparents
> > > lived and it's not unusual for grandparents to  announce a birth to
> > > their friends, even if the grandson lives  elsewhere. Also, if Obama's
> > >  parents lived in Hawaii then  moved to Kenya when they birthed him,
> > > it wouldn't be unusual to  announce the birth in the old neighborhood
> > > for friends to  see.
> > >
> > > The newspaper announcements cut against the  Birthers, but they are
> > > hearsay documents and don't answer the  citizen question any more than
> > >  his grammar school records  prove he is a Muslim. The original Birth
> > > Certificate will end it  all.
> > >
> > > School Records:  The Birthers believe that  Obama's records from
> > > college and graduate school will show he  matriculated as a foreign
> > > born student.  This is easy -- shut  them up by releasing them!
> > > Obama's response?  "No."   Why?
> > >
> > > This one reminds me of John Kerry not releasing  his Yale records
> > > until after the election.  During the  campaign Kerry soaked in the
> > > warm media bath that swore he was the  intellectual and George Bush
> > > the dolt. When the records came out  later it was quietly reported
> > > that George Bush had a higher grade  point average at Yale.
> > >
> > > Media's penchant to cover for  Democrat candidates fuels the Birther
> > > fire as well.  See as  an example John Edwards' love affair.
> > >
> > > Financial Aid  Records:  Barack Obama relishes his own personal Sonia
> > >  Sotomayor-like story of how he came from a broken home and pulled
> > >  himself up by his own bootstraps.  But he refuses to show how  his
> > > very expensive tuition at Occidental College, Columbia  University and
> > >  Harvard Law School were paid  for.
> > >
> > > The Birthers believe the records will show Obama  received financial
> > > aid as a foreign born student.  Obama says  they won't.  Not to sound
> > > like a broken record, but releasing  the records will end the
> > > controversy, and Obama refuses.  Why?
> > >
> > > The Birther movement is Obama's fault for not  releasing the records.
> > > I hope the Birthers continue to bite his  ankles until he releases the
> > >  records. He deserves nothing  less.
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Never expect magic from no  where"  Baringo (Kenyan) working motto
> >  http://erthnsky.blogspot.com/
> > EarthNSky Farm, NW Georgia, USA
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