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[bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>]

Everyone is bringing 'race' into this.  You can't hide from it.  Look at any 
of the news websites.  It is everywhere.  I have a fear that who-ever said it 
(I can't remeber who) was right about there being great potential for his 
presidency actually hurting race relations in this country.

  When he is called names, slimed , made fun of, the typical things that 
happen to 'every' president, how will people react?  But, that should never 
be a factor in giving an individual an opportunity.  As an individual, he has 
every right to be where he is, and I just hope he can take the punsihment 
that he must eventually endure ....bobford


------------------------------------------------------------------------


--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] The longest post yet-Anger
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, November 6, 2008, 6:43 AM
> Bev; You know I love you, but for someone who doesn't
> want to bring race 
> into it, you bring race into it an awful lot. You've
> painted blacks with a 
> pretty broad brush...do you really think that anyone
> assumes they don't have 
> to work anymore because Obama will save them? I was touched
> on election 
> night at the pride I saw among blacks. I watched that video
> of the woman who 
> "didn't have to worry about putting gas in her car
> or paying her mortgage". 
> What I saw was someone who had hope; she thought that
> finally someone who 
> might give her a little break was in office. I can
> understand that; I also 
> don't feel that anyone was fighting for me for the last
> 8 years. I'm hoping 
> that Obama can stop some of the extreme socialism that has
> been extended to 
> the rich and to corporations, with the bailouts and tax
> loopholes. I didn't 
> vote for him, but I'm willing to give him a chance.
> 
> Lynn Wigglesworth
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "EarthNSky" <erthnsky AT bellsouth.net>
> To: <homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:26 AM
> Subject: [Homestead] The longest post yet-Anger
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > I thank Bev for the congratulations that she offered
> so generously
> > last night. The amount of vitriol on this list is
> saddening to me.
> > The rift between people I care for and respect and
> others that I care
> >  for equally needs to be mended. Perhaps in a week or
> two or three,
> > we can work on that. Or maybe not.
> 
> Thank you Marie, and all, for your kindness.  I was sincere
> in my
> congratulations.  I'm not going to do a Hasselback just
> yet, but I will
> try harder to see the positive side of living in a New
> America. More on
> that later.
> 
> My issues with certain list members are not new.  I left
> this list once
> because of the double standard that I saw.  I left again
> last night, and
> came back today.  This post is about anger.
> I have a lot of leftover anger regarding this election and
> this list.
> The list is the only place I really discuss politics, and
> this election
> is my first foray into political discussions in the 13 or
> 14 years or
> whatever that I have been here.  I have participated at a
> cost to my
> personal relationships, and I am not referring to Gene. 
> Don't get me
> wrong, I entered the fray knowing that I was amongst those
> who held
> opposite opinions, and for the most part, I do enjoy
> reading views that
> are opposite mine, however there is often a double standard
> on this list
> that favors liberalism and those who lean to the left, and
> that double
> standard really bothers me. <Palin voice on> If you
> can't see the double
> standard, then you are probably one of the ones I'm
> talkin' about.<Palin
> voice off> ;)
> 
> I was chastised for labeling people as Pro and Anti-Obama
> and yet, those
> same people have said nothing about Gene labeling me as
> closed minded or
> Moon's characterization of Sarah Palin as trash.(Sorry
> to pick on you
> Moon, that was just the most recent label that I have read
> on the list)
>    A label is apparently ok, if the liberal members agree
> with it.  And
> then there is so much talk of respect and civility, and
> yet, that rule
> only seems to apply to some people and not others. Gene
> posted an
> article with his baiting and confrontational comments, and
> I responded
> with an argumentative opinion. Gene said recently that he
> respected my
> opinion, but when I voiced it in response to his post, he
> called me
> closed minded.  Yesterday or before that, he started off a
> post to Drew
> questioning Drew's open-mindedness, which automatically
> makes a person
> go into defense mode.  It is all super ironic, since I
> think Gene is the
> one with a closed mind when it comes to hearing negative
> things about Obama.
> 
> I have always, always, been someone who tries to make peace
> and find
> middle/common ground because I don't like conflict.
> This is true of me
> on this list and in my personal life. I should be safe to
> venture into
> the following as I think I am beyond the first 100 words
> that Gene reads
> of my posts. (and btw, wasn't that a shining example of
> being
> respectful, to tell someone that you only read the first
> 100 words or so
> of their posts, and yet, the same day, post a link to a
> multiple page
> article for the list to read-it felt like a slap in the
> face to me-and I
> am still hurt, one of the reasons I don't feel like I
> belong here
> anymore.  Anyway, there was talk recently of looking for
> commonalities,
> but when someone wants to say that it is daytime when it is
> clearly
> nighttime just to goad another into an argument, well,
> there is no
> talking to someone like that.
> Here is an example, look at this:
> > It is never enough to stop exposing criminality. The
> Supreme
> > Presidency and the DC Whorehouse exist as they do
> because too few
> > Americans make efforts to expose it and to vote
> against the
> > wrongdoers. "The price of freedom is eternal
> vigilance."
> 
> Gene wrote that a week or so ago.  I think, by all
> accounts, Ayers
> committed criminal acts. Even Obama says they were
> despicable.  But not
> Gene.  He can see the criminality in W, but not in Ayers. 
> He can see
> the criminality in the DC Whorehouse, but only on the
> Republican side.
> How can you find commonality with someone when you
> can't even agree on
> what 'criminal' means or what the DC Whorehouse is?
>  Oh, he will now
> probably come out and say 'despicable' isn't
> 'criminal' or play some
> other word game,,,whatever.  He did make a relevant quote
> though.  The
> price of freedom *is* eternal vigilance.  And when there is
> something
> wrong, it is our civic duty to expose it.  That is why I
> will continue
> to ask questions about Obama.  We need, no, we deserve to
> know
> everything about the man whom we are to trust to keep us
> safe from all
> threats both foreign and domestic. Since he is not
> volunteering
> information and has blocked information, it is our duty to
> get tough and
> to try to find out what is being hidden.  There are a lot
> of gaps in his
> history. There is a lot to question.  I'm not liking
> some of the answers
> I've gotten. Obviously, some people don't even care
> that there are
> gaps....'it's irrelevant' they say, but maybe,
> just maybe, those of us
> who do care, who do see the gaps and the problems, might
> just be the
> torch and canary bearers as we venture into the future. 
> IMO, if we can
> discuss Sarah Palins pregnancy or lack of one, we can
> discuss the faults
> and foibles of President Elect Obama.  We certainly
> discussed the faults
> and foibles of Bush, Clinton, and every other president of
> the last 50
> years.
> 
> I said in the beginning of this post that I had a lot of
> anger about
> this election.  I've thought a lot about it over the
> last week or so,
> and I think I am most angry with our educational system
> because people
> are simply not informed.  A 24 year old guy Ron works with
> did not vote
> because he did not register because "that new college
> picks the
> president so I don't have to vote".  Then, there
> are the more informed
> people who are swayed by the media or their family or their
> peers, but
> who never truly think for themselves and don't truly
> understand the big
> picture. There are all kinds of education problems.  Some
> of us, myself
> and Sarah Palin included, didn't study politics or
> government, and
> before this election did not have a clear picture of the
> differences
> between socialism and communism and capitalism and fascism
> and all the
> -isms of economics and politics.  I'm still learning. 
> So there's
> educational anger...
> There is also racial anger.  My entire life, I have
> believed that race
> does not matter.  I was taught, like I taught my children,
> to live by
> the words of Martin Luther King, to judge a man, not by the
> color of his
> skin, but by the content of his character.  I live by that.
> I believe
> that to be a truth-a path to a better world, and that is
> why I taught it
> to my children.  And yet in this election, I see hundreds
> of thousands
> of black people who have voted for Obama not on the content
> of his
> character, but on the color of his skin.  This angers me,
> and I fully
> expect that I will not be alone in my anger on this matter.
>   I feel
> that white people, the MSM, and even some people on this
> list gave Obama
> a pass because of his race, and never looked very hard at
> the rest of
> the picture.  His childhood and upbringing did affect
> him...it led to
> his ideology.  The problem is, I see a blue violet ideology
> and you see
> blue green ideology, and no one really knows where Obama
> lies in the
> spectrum...and it does matter, because we deserve to know.
> One more comment about race and then I will let it go here.
>  I think
> contrary to popular opinion, that Obama's election will
> hurt race
> relations in this country.  When I say New America, this is
> what I
> reference.   We are now living in a new and different
> America, where
> attitudes are very different than they were even three days
> ago.  When
> you combine the new sense of  empowerment blacks feel, with
> the
> expectation that Obama will be a savior to the poor, with
> the anger that
> whites have over reverse racism and ideological anger like
> what I feel
> and described above, you end up with problems and I think
> you will start
> to see the clashes very soon, even before the inauguration.
>  Today, at
> the dealership where Ron works, black employees did not
> show up for
> work.  I don't know how widespread this is, but I know
> it is at least
> greater than a local phenomenon because I have heard the
> same comments
> from people in other cities. Apparently, some people
> don't see the need
> to work, because their housing, insurance, gasoline, and
> medical bills
> will soon be taken care of. They can't wait for
> Socialism to take
> effect.  I personally hope that people come to their senses
> soon, but I
> fear this behavior will grow and that there will be serious
> implications
> to race relations.  One of the guys that works with Ron,
> Rocky, is a
> sweet man.  He's older than me, and illiterate, but he
> has a huge heart
> and well, he's the kind of guy you would want to tell
> stories to your
> grandkids.  He's dirt poor-takes care of his
> handicapped sister, and
> they treat him like crap at work-he's the guy who
> cleans up new and used
> cars.  We always just give him eggs because he only makes
> $7/hour.  In
> 10 years, Rocky has never been out of work, but He laid out
> today.  I
> can pretty well tell you that Rocky wasn't out partying
> in the streets
> getting drunk.  I believe that he believes that he and his
> sister will
> be taken care of. <sigh>  If Rocky is buying into
> that, we are in real
> trouble, my friends.  I am angry with Obama for misleading
> decent
> hardworking black people.
> 
> I am also angry that I was not able to convince anyone to
> vote against
> Obama, either for a Libertarian or for McCain or another
> party/write in.
>   I could not even convince my naive daughter, who believes
> that with
> Obama's help, she will be able to go back to school
> full-time.   So I
> feel like I failed her in that regard.  My fears of
> Socialistic change
> in this country have also led me to be angry about the
> future for my
> granddaughter.  I want her to be able to sit and write 1000
> word or
> 10000 word dissertations against her President should she
> choose to do
> so.  I would like to have left this Homestead to my
> children, but I fear
> that they will never own it because they won't be able
> to pay the taxes.
> 
> So that's as much of it as I have been able to figure
> out.
> I'm not leaving homestead just yet because it is my
> duty to be vigilant.
>   I expect that that will cause problems, and for that I
> will apologize
> in advance, but perhaps you will try to understand that my
> search for
> what I feel is truth is my way of coming to terms with my
> feelings.
> Perhaps, while I am looking at Obama, I will see in him
> what Oprah sees.
>   I doubt I will, but I promise that I will try to see
> things in a more
> positive light.
> In that vein, I have to share this..
> I have Fox on TV, A few minutes back Alan Colmes said (in
> good spirit)
> How did Liberals convince enough Conservative Americans to
> elect a
> Socialist like Barack Obama?..lol..
> -- 
> “Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger.
> Anger leads to
> hate. Hate leads to suffering.”        Yoda
> 
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> 
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