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  • From: bob ford <bobford79 AT yahoo.com>
  • To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [Homestead] post election night mayhem
  • Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:35:27 -0700 (PDT)

They 'are' tracking me Lynn. I just saw another helicopter looking at me last
night. They thought the fact that they landed on the helipad at the nearby
hospital fooled me. And, you should worry to , since you are one of my
email contacts <G> ......bobford

This (below)is a silly but serious take on rigged elections (which I believe
can and do happen, just not by the people most often blamed);
The last and longest quotation is my personal favorite ...bobf

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


" The worst way elections are rigged in the US is not touchscreen voting
machines or phony computer software for scanning paper ballots, but the
monopolistic media manipulating minds.

There's also the differences between the ostensible level of politics (the
three branches of co-equal government and the other nonsense taught to us in
school), and the "deep politics" of how the military industrial intelligence
complex really works.

It's good to focus on some of the mechanics of manipulating ballot counting,
but the deeper problems are much more entrenched and would take a societal
wide consciousness shift to address.

The 2008 "election" is a choice between the Rockefeller Republicans and the
neo-cons, between the Council on Foreign Relations (Obama / Biden) and the
American Enterprise Institute (McCain), between the old guard of foreign
policy and the crazies.

We need better choices than that if we are going to be able to use some of
the rest of the oil for relocalization, renewable energy and "power down"
strategies to mitigate the end of the age of oil."

--------------------------------------------------------------


***Bush won because he ran against Kerry. If he ran unopposed he would have
lost.
-- Mort Sahl


***The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and
policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish
idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two
parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw
the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extensive
shifts in policy.
-- Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in our Time
(one of Bill Clinton's teachers)


***Give the people a choice between a Republican and a Democrat who talks
like a Republican and they'll choose the Republican every time.
-- Harry S. Truman


***Corrupted by wealth and power, your government is like a restaurant with
only one dish. They've got a set of Republican waiters on one side and a set
of Democratic waiters on the other side. But no matter which set of waiters
brings you the dish, the legislative grub is all prepared in the same Wall
Street kitchen.
-- Huey Long


***"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to
continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive
to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, pull back the curtains,
and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."
-- Frank Zappa


***The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things
and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they’re an
irrelevancy.

The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of
choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They
own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the
corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the
Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They’ve got the judges in their
back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control
just about all of the news and information you hear.

They’ve got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year
lobbying - lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they
want more for themselves and less for everybody else.


But I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of
citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed,
well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in
that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests.

They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table
and figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them
overboard 30 fucking years ago. You know what they want? Obedient workers -
people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but
just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs
with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime
and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it.

And, now, they’re coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking
retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal
friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get
it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It’s a big
club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club.
-- George Carlin

























--- On Wed, 10/22/08, Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Lynn Wigglesworth <lynnw1366 AT hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Homestead] post election night mayhem
> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 2:20 PM
> I amazes me that this country can't get it's act
> together with voter
> registration and casting/counting votes. Bob, I don't
> think you have to
> worry too much about them tracking you. They can't even
> figure out if a
> dead person is voting.
>
> Lynn Wigglesworth
>
> bob ford wrote:
> > There probably are some 'rigged' elections:
> Bad machines, incorrect procedures, dead people voting. The
> idea that it is prevalent enough to decide a national
> election in favor of republicans is just not valid.
> >
> > Most of these problems happen in large urban areas
> which are usually controlled by urban activist democrats.
> Diebold is not even an issue , this year. And, if their
> spokesman hadn't made a stupid statement, it would never
> have been an issue. I totally agree with you about paper
> trail, though. I voted on a paper ballot. ....bobford
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Lynn Wigglesworth wrote:
> >
> >> From: Lynn Wigglesworth
> >> Subject: Re: [Homestead] post election night
> mayhem
> >> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 1:53 PM
> >> I honestly do believe that the machines (at least
> some of
> >> them) are
> >> rigged, or the vote is tampered with somewhere
> between the
> >> machine and
> >> the tabulation center. I've seen way too many
> credible
> >> reports. My
> >> candidate doesn't stand a snowballs chance of
> ever
> >> winning, but more
> >> than anything I hate lies, deception, and
> cheating, and
> >> call it where
> >> ever I think it's happening. I won't
> believe that
> >> elections are fair
> >> until there is a paper trail that allows every
> vote to be
> >> counted and
> >> recounted, even if it takes 2 months to name the
> winner.
> >>
> >> Lynn Wigglesworth
> >>
> >> bob ford wrote:
> >>> You would have every right to 'scream'
> if it
> >> happened to you. But it hasn't. Ever. Nor
> has it
> >> happened to me or anyone with whom I have ever
> spoken .
> >> Malfunctions do occur, but the hysteria around
> republican
> >> ability to manipulate voting processes is based on
> nothing
> >> more credible than urban legends.
> >>> The 'fact' is that voting processes in
> most
> >> states are overseen by democrats. Another fact is
> the
> >> groups being investigated for 'actual'
> voter
> >> registration fraud are 'democrats.
> >>> I know you are 'independent. Please
> don't
> >> buy into this "poor me, democrat who cant get
> his vote
> >> counted" non-sense. If McCain pulls an upset
> and wins,
> >> it will be because a lot of citizens, at the
> moment of
> >> truth, decided that there could be good reson not
> to
> >> completely trust Obama, OR to give 'all'
> >> governmental power to one party. ....bobford
> >>>
> >>> --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Lynn Wigglesworth
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> From: Lynn Wigglesworth
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Homestead] post election
> night
> >> mayhem
> >>>> To: homestead AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >>>> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 12:50
> PM
> >>>> It will be even worse if people actually
> SEE their
> >> vote
> >>>> flipped on the
> >>>> machine, as apparently is already
> happening in
> >> some of the
> >>>> early voting.
> >>>> Heck, if that happened to me, *I'd* be
> out
> >> there
> >>>> screaming. Civil unrest
> >>>> is not ALWAYS a bad thing if people have a
> >> legitimate
> >>>> complaint. Since
> >>>> 2000, people have been demanding a more
> >> transparent voting
> >>>> system.
> >>>> Instead we get machines with "little
> black
> >> boxes"
> >>>> instead of accessible
> >>>> code, and no paper trail (made by a
> company whose
> >> CEO
> >>>> promised to
> >>>> deliver the election to Bush).
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.youdecide2008.com/2008/10/21/voting-fraud-fears-grow/
> >>
> http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/10/voting-machine.html
> >>>> http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6540
> >>>>
> >>>> Lynn Wigglesworth
> >>>>
> >>>> bob ford wrote:
> >>>>> Leading The News
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Police prepare for unrest
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By Alexander Bolton
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Posted: 10/21/08 07:58 PM [ET]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Police departments in cities across
> the
> >> country are
> >>>> beefing up their ranks for Election Day,
> preparing
> >> for
> >>>> possible civil unrest and riots after the
> historic
> >>>> presidential contest.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Excerpts:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ......" (James) Carville said
> earlier
> >> this month
> >>>> that “it would be very, very, very
> dramatic out
> >> there”
> >>>> if Obama lost, a statement some
> commentators
> >> interpreted as
> >>>> predicting riots.".............
> >>>>> ........But Tate declined to describe
> what the
> >>>> worst-case scenario might look like,
> speaking
> >> gingerly like
> >>>> other police officials who are wary of
> implying
> >> that black
> >>>> voters are more likely than other voting
> groups to
> >> cause
> >>>> trouble.................
> >>>>> ...............Shelton, of the NAACP,
> said he
> >>>> understands the need for police to
> maintain order.
> >> But he is
> >>>> also concerned that some political
> partisans may
> >> point their
> >>>> finger at black voters as potential
> troublemakers
> >> because
> >>>> the Democratic nominee is black..........
> >>>>> ...........Some worry that if Barack
> Obama
> >> loses and
> >>>> there is suspicion of foul play in the
> election,
> >> violence
> >>>> could ensue in cities with large black
> >> populations. Others
> >>>> based the need for enhanced patrols on
> past riots
> >> in urban
> >>>> areas (following professional sports
> events) and
> >> also on
> >>>> Internet rumors.
> >>>>> Democratic strategists and advocates
> for black
> >> voters
> >>>> say they understand officers wanting to
> keep the
> >> peace, but
> >>>> caution that excessive police presence
> could
> >> intimidate
> >>>> voters................"
> >>>>>
> >>
> http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/police-prepare-for-unrest-2008-10-21.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>
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> >>
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> >>>>> View the archives at:
> >>>>>
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming
> message.
> >>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >>>>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database:
> >> 270.8.2/1739 -
> >>>> Release Date: 10/22/2008 7:23 AM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>> When your life is on the go—take your
> life with
> >> you.
> >>>>
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Homestead list and subscription:
> >>>>
> >>
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> >>>> Change your homestead list member options:
> >>>>
> >>
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> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> _______________________________________________
> >>> Homestead list and subscription:
> >>>
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> >>> Change your homestead list member options:
> >>>
> >>
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> >>> View the archives at:
> >>> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database:
> 270.8.2/1739 -
> >> Release Date: 10/22/2008 7:23 AM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows
> Live
> >> SkyDrive.
> >>
> http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Homestead list and subscription:
> >>
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> >> Change your homestead list member options:
> >>
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> >> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/homestead
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Homestead list and subscription:
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> > Change your homestead list member options:
> >
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> >
> >
> > /p==
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1739 -
> Release Date: 10/22/2008 7:23 AM
> >
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> When your life is on the go—take your life with you.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298558/direct/01/
> _______________________________________________
> Homestead list and subscription:
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