Corpus-Paul

["Mark D. Nanos" <nanosmd AT comcast.net>]

Edgar,
The observation seems to rely upon circular reasoning. Paul appears to
target his comments to non-Jews specifically in each of these letters, and
not to Jews. Romans is the only case where the internal evidence of ch. 16
suggests the presence of Jewish people among the target addressees and not
merely in the larger social context outside of the Christ-believers' groups,
although they are not who the letter targets (implied audience).

So Romans aside, how does one know that there are not Jews in the mix in the
letters where no Scripture is quoted, but only in the ones where it is,
except on the basis that Scripture is quoted or not?

Hence we do not know it on that basis, but on the basis of circular
reasoning it is supposed that if there is Scripture cited there are Jews, if
not there are not, and then when Scripture is found it is known that there
are Jews, and when not cited, that there are not.

What do we know? No doubt he chooses to use Scripture because he believes it
is compelling, authoritative for his audience of non-Jews, whom he addresses
directly thereby--in those cases where he uses it. We do not know why he
does not use it in other cases when addressing at target audience of
non-Jews. Is it because of Jews in the audience or not? That we do not know.
Perhaps it has to do with the socialization of those non-Jews within Jewish
communities or not (previously? still?), so that they have been exposed to
Scripture as authoritative, but not the inclusion of Jewish people among the
audience or not (previously? still?).

Regards,
Mark
-- 
Mark D. Nanos, Ph.D.
Rockhurst University
Co-Moderator
http://home.comcast.net/~nanosmd/


on 1/18/05 7:54 AM, Edgar Krentz at ekrentz AT sbcglobal.net wrote:

> Thanks, Mark. I think that your reply supports my
> point Romans, Galatians and 2 Corinthians are written
> to communities with Jewish people in the mix. 1
> Corinthians is more of a problem for me.
> 
> But 1 Thessalonians, Philippians and Philemon do not
> use OT materials. Hence my point in the first post.
> Paul does use the Torah when it is a compelling
> argument, does not in other circumst ances.
> Ed Krentz
> 
> -- "Mark D. Nanos" <nanosmd AT comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> Edgar,
>> In Rom 11:13 Paul writes that he is "speaking to you
>> Gentiles" as "the
>> apostle to the Gentiles," and proceeds to cite
>> Scripture to legitimate his
>> arguments. In Gal 4:8 and elsewhere he writes to
>> those who formerly
>> worshiped idols and who are not circumcised or
>> Torah-people, and proceeds to
>> cite Scripture to legitimate his arguments. In 1 Cor
>> 8--10 he writes to
>> people who formerly thought that idols were gods and
>> ate idol food, and
>> cites Scripture to legitimate his arguments. So I do
>> not see how the point
>> you suggest in your short submission works in this
>> case.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Mark
>> -- 
>> Mark D. Nanos, Ph.D.
>> Rockhurst University
>> Co-Moderator
>> http://home.comcast.net/~nanosmd/
>> 
>> 
>> on 1/17/05 7:41 PM, Edgar Krentz at
>> ekrentz AT sbcglobal.net wrote:
>> 
>>> I only wish to make one small comment about what
>> Mark
>>> wrote in his long submission. I agree that Paul
>>> regards the Torah as normative--when he is writing
>> to
>>> a group that includes Jews who have come to accept
>>> Jesus as messiah.
>>> 
>>> But that is a mark of his arguementation. He does
>> not
>>> cite or refer to Torah in 1 Thessalonians or in
>>> Philippians, when his addressees appear to be
>>> gentiles. Clearly Romans and Galatians, and likely
>>> both Coreinthian documents included Jews in their
>>> congregations. [Philemon does not use the OT!] So
>> one
>>> perhaps should ask whether Paul's use of the Torah
>> is
>>> simply a warrant that is useful when addressing
>> Jews,
>>> but not when addressing gentiles.
>>> 
>>> Ed Krentz
>>> 
>>> --- "Mark D. Nanos" <nanosmd AT comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> It is clear to me that Paul continued to use the
>>>> Torah to teach from, and
>>>> that he understood that it was authoritative for
>>>> those he addressed in his
>>>> letters. Do I need to argue this? He cites Torah
>> to
>>>> legitimate his
>>>> arguments, and he appeals to Torah as
>>>> normative--according to his
>>>> interpretation of it, of course--for even Torah
>>>> requires this exercise, and
>>>> cannot simply be quoted so that the meaning is
>> self
>>>> evident! 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> =====
>>> Edgar and Becky Krentz
>>> Christ Seminary Seminex Prof. of NT Emeritus
>>> Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
>>> 1100 E. 55th Street
>>> Chicago, IL 60615
>>> 
>>> ekrentz AT sbcglobal.net
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>>> 
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> 
> =====
> Edgar and Becky Krentz
> Christ Seminary Seminex Prof. of NT Emeritus
> Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
> 1100 E. 55th Street
> Chicago, IL 60615
> 
> ekrentz AT sbcglobal.net
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