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  • From: "moon-ryul jung" <moon AT sogang.ac.kr>
  • To: corpus-paul AT franklin.oit.unc.edu
  • Subject: Re: the role of the law in salvation-history
  • Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 07:34:32 -0400


Billy,
Thanks for the interaction. About the referents of "we" and "you",
please see another post of mine. We will have a fruitful discussion.


>> You wrote:
> Because, for Israel there is a blessing and a curse in relation to their
> law [as declared by the prophets and as realized in history several
> times and even now].
>
> Billy:
> The way I understand covenant, one would recieve either the blessing for
> obedience or the curse for disobedience. What blessing is left to be had
> under Moses? Can it be that God still holds out the land to Present Day
> Israel when he has promised the world to Abraham?=20
>

Your questions seem to indicate that you took my statements in the
direction which I did not intend. By Israel I mean the people of
God given the promise of Abraham and the law. They had the blessing
given to them as the people of God. The issue at stake in Paul's letter
is whether Gentile believers should practice the works of the law
as identity markers of being Jews, in addition to faith in Christ.
Paul was trying to dissuade them from doing it. But in that process,
Paul made several negative statements about the law. I would like
to make sense of them, without criticizing the law-observance of
Israelites. Paul's language sounds like he criticized the law
-observance of Israelites, but it is quite possible that he would
be surprised by our interpretations of his statements. My concern is
simply to make sense of his statements. I am not ready to draw any
theological conclusions.




> Moon wrote:
> There is no point in that backward move.=20
>
> Billy:
> It's not going backward far enough! It's that in going backward one
> doesn't stop at Moses; one keeps going back to the promise made to
> Abraham. The gentiles come in because of promises to Abraham which, of
> course, pre-dates Moses.
>

I meant going backward to the law of Israel, after the new age of
salvation has dawned in Christ.

> Moon:
> In fact, Christ redeemed us [Gentiles] from the curse of the law (Gal
> 3:13) [which is the fate of Israel as the Law-people], that to the
> nations might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus, that we
> [Gentiles] might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith[Gal
> 3:14ab].
>
> Billy:
> Do you mean gentiles universal or prosylites? I don't see how gentiles
> universal could be considered to be under the curse of the law. Gentiles
> are under a curse to be sure, but the law was part of a specific
> covenant through Moses and to his people. I don't see how it can mean
> prosylites either since here they are in danger of the Mosaic curse
> after Christ has already redeemed them.
>

I see your point. The Gentiles were not under the law, and were not under
the curse of the law. But until Christ came, Gentiles should have become
Jews to belong to God's people. In that case, they were under the law
and under the potential curse of the law. But in the new age, there is
no need for Gentiles to become prosleytes to be God's people. Gentiles
could become God's people directly through faith in Christ. So, we could
say that Christ redeemed Gentiles from the potential curse of the law
because Christ enabled them to bypass the law in the process of becoming
God's people.

> Moon wrote:
> [The reasons that I take "us" to refer to the Gentiles are twofold.
> (1) "we" refer to Jews only 2:15, where we have explicit indicators
> ie. "we ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile
> sinners".
> Unless otherwise stated, therefore, it is natural to think that
> Paul
> uses "we" to refer to the Gentile believers in the Galatian
> church.
> Paul identifies him with them as the leader of the congregation.
> =20
> Billy:
> I don't see why the explicit indicators would have to follow each use of
> "we." I would say the 2:15 defines "we" for the rest of the letter.=20
>

Please see my post on this issue.


> Moon:
> (2) "you" and "we" are used interchangeably throughout the letter.
> E.g. 4:5-6. "so that we might receive the sonship. Because you are
> sons,
> God sent the Spirit of his son into our hearts"
> "You" and "we" are interchanged even in a single sentence
> in 4:6.
>
> Billy:
> I see 4:5-6 as a transition from "we" Jews by birth to "you" gentiles by
> birth. But I guess that would go without saying. :-)
>

It does not seem that simple. We can talk about it further.

>
> Moon:
> This solution does not say anything negative about the law-observance of
>
> Israelites, except for the non-controversial fact that there is a
> blessing
> and a curse in relation to the law.
>
> Billy:
> Again, how is there a remaining blessing in relation to the law?
>

I guess that the blessing consists of prosperity, abundance as said by the
prophets. But further discusssions in this direction might cause us to
lose the focus. We are trying to make sense of Gal 3:10, 13.

Moon
Moon R. Jung
Sogang Univ,
Seoul, Korea

> Repsectfully,
> Billy LeJeune
> Reader of Wright
>
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