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baslinux - Re: [BL] bent linux precompiled uclibc programs

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  • From: baslinux AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • To: baslinux AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [BL] bent linux precompiled uclibc programs
  • Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:00:49 +0000 (UTC)

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, baslinux AT lists.ibiblio.org wrote:

Message from Steven
===================
Sindi wrote:

Add these to the list of things that need 2.4 kernel -
the newer busybox (uclibc based),

We don't need it. Our current busybox works just fine.

I am not saying you need it, just that it requires 2.4.

most USB storage devices and probably other hardware.

BL3 is designed for old computers. There are plenty
of more up-to-date distributions that provide full
support for USB and other new hardware. BL3 is not
competing with them.

DOS supports most USB storage devices too.
Not the one for my camera. The 1-floppy linux David Moberg
compiled does support everything we own.

To use links in BL3, you need a 2.4 kernel, but not
glibc.

That is not correct. links works fine with a 2.2 kernel.
In fact, I have recently uploaded two nice links packages
for the 2.2 kernel (and libc5).

I meant 'elinks' - sorry. Your two packages work well.

at 2.4MB it is smaller than Opera or links2 (but nongraphical).

Any non-graphical browser should be much smaller than
the graphical browsers. 2.4 mb is way too big for a
non-graphical browser.

It is a LOT smaller than opera. I am looking for some nongraphical javascript browser. The links2 javascript support is not very good and won't work at any of the sites I want it for.

Opera 9.26 is 16.6MB and needs 5MB of glibc = 22MB disk space.
(Older versions are smaller but not up to date on the javascript).
It uses 2.2% of my RAM, plus .4% for Xvesa and xinit = 13MB RAM

When viewing a 1.5MB image, at 640x480x16M, opera uses 9.8%, Xvesa 0.7%, xinit 0.1% of my RAM - 54MB. (Can this be right?!).

This makes Opera not the best browser for a low-RAM BL3, even though it will work with 2.2 kernel.

Elinks without javascript is 1.6MB plus 5MB glibc=7MB, or 2.4MB uclibc-static. The static libjs is 4MB so the uclibc java might use
6.5MB disk space.

It uses .3% of my RAM (no X needed) = 1.5MB RAM

If you use zgv to display a 1.5MB jpg with elinks, add 1.5% memory for zgv and another .3% for elinks = 9MB, total 10.5MB RAM.

elinks crashes if I use zgv and switch vts to use top. I hope it will work better with xli or xv under X. I know it does NOT display inline images. links2 is nicer except the javascript is not usable at most sites.


Add in the extra memory used by a larger kernel:
600K for a 2.4 kernel (my smallest without scsi or sound or USB support) vs 400K for a 2.2 kernel. How much more RAM would this larger kernel use?
My biggest kernel appears to be using 7.5MB RAM. A BL3 kernel uses about 2MB RAM. So let's say 5MB extra RAM for a 2.4 kernel, at most.
(I am surprised it used that much more - good reason to avoid 2.4 in a RAMDISK linux).

Opera with 2.2 kernel - 13-54MB RAM
Elinks with 2.4 kernel - 1.5-10.5MB plus 5MB for kernel - 6.5-16.5MB RAM

If a system can run Opera, it can run Elinks/javascript with 2.4 kernel,
probably a lot faster.

Perhaps Steven would like to offer us a minimal 2.4
kernel for BL3 with support for USB storage,

No, Steven has no interest in 2.4 kernels. He uses
the 2.2.26 kernel on all eight of his old computers
(none of which has USB). 2.4 (and 2.6) kernels have
significantly bigger footprints, and Steven does not
want to burden his systems.

Opera is a larger burden than elinks with 2.4 kernel, on both hard disk space and RAM. I know it does more, but it does it more slowly and most of the time I only want to read the text at a site with javascript.

Is there some way to invoke other browsers from within links or links2, like you can with w3m or lynx? If so, I would use links2 graphical with ssl, and switch to elinks if I hit javascript.

also usable with elinks?

I don't see the benefit of elinks. We already have
a small non-graphical browser in BL3 (links95) and
an add-on package for enhanced links (links123).
Add to that the graphical links2 package and the
possibility of installing Opera. It seems to me
that our browser options are pretty well covered.
Surely there are more useful add-ons to consider
than yet another browser?

How long does it take you to load Opera on a computer with 16MB RAM?
How long to display a large image?

On my fast system, with Opera in cache, at 640x480, it takes 3 seconds to load Opera a second time, maybe 20 sec the first time. Elinks .5 sec or so from cache. Can I clear cache somehow to test?

'enhanced links' is what they are calling elinks.
Your links123 is something different.

Sindi

Cheers,
Steven




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