Baslinux mailing list

[<keesan2 AT cyberspace.org>]

On Thu, 8 May 2003 qwms-avib AT dea.spamcon.org wrote:

> keesan2 AT cyberspace.org wrote:
> > 
> > I thought you said it depended on one (1) 
> > file found in bin.tgz, 
> 
> That's right, it needs sed.

> 
> > I don't see how pkgtool is any more essential 
> > than modprobe, 
> 
> pkgtool is more essential because it gives the user
> the capability to install modprobe (or anything else
> the user might want).


But you do NOT need pkgtool to install packages or remove them.  You can
use installpkg and removepkg.  Or even tar and rm.  I do not see the point
in adding 2M of files to a 10M installation in order to use pkgtool when
there are other easy ways to do the same thing.  At least let people know
that they do not really need bin.tgz for the hard drive installation, just
one file (sed) out of it if they want to use pkgtool instead of
installpkg.  And post sed at your site for people who do not want to buy a
Slackware CD.  To me 'essential' means you cannot manage without it and I
have managed perfectly without installpkg or sed.

> 
> > or why you should need to download 1M of package 
> 
> As I said in my previous message, the BL2 installation
> routine is designed to use the Slackware 7.1 CDrom.  
> You insert the CDrom, mount it at /cd, and away you go.
> For people without a CDrom drive, I included instructions
> for using individual Slackware packages, but that is not
> nearly as nice as using the CDrom.
> 
> > It took me several weeks to get mdacon working because 
> > the instructions called for modprobe -  meaning that BL2 
> > was not behaving like Slackware.  
> 
> There are three methods (or are there four?) of installing
> modules:  insmod, modprobe, kerneld.  Any of them will do
> the job (if you know how to use them).  BL2 has insmod.
> Slackware has insmod and modprobe (and probably kerneld).
> BL2 has one editor.  Slackware has several.  BL2 has one
> shell.  Slackware has several.
> 
> The default HD installation of BL2 provides just a subset
> of the normal Slackware installation.  However, by using
> pkgtool, you can install any of the extras you want (like
> modprobe).

You can also install them without pkgtool.

> > for people who don't want to download large packages to 
> > get them.  (I also have a 33K modem, 
> 
> Downloading packages on a 33.6 modem is a big time-waster.  
> If you are going to continue with BL2, I strongly recommend 
> that you acquire the Slackware 7.1 CDrom.  It will make your 
> life *much* simpler.  


> > and my 120M of hard drive available for Linux is filling up fast.)
> 
> If you had a Slackware 7.1 CDrom, you wouldn't have to put
> Slackware files (like MANIFEST.gz) on the HD.

I could also put it on floppy disk.  My point is that I don't want to
fill up my computer with a large number of files for which I have no
current use.  I like to understand what is on there.  There is nothing in
bin.tgz that I have not been able to do just fine without.   I am only
asking you to inform people that bin.tgz is not necessary for a basic
installation, but that you will need one file from it if you want to use
pkgtool instead of installpkg and removepkg.  

> 
> > so far done fine without ANY of what is in bin.tgz.
> 
> What about zless?  The reason we started discussing bin.tgz
> was because you were missing zless.  Actually, there are 
> several important binaries in bin.tgz.  gawk, in particular,
> is needed by quite a few applications.  file (which is in
> BL1) is a command I use several times a day.  Full versions
> of sed and which are useful, because the busybox versions
> don't work in every situation.  The at binaries provide
> functionality that might be useful one day.  And so on.
> bin.tgz is not a waste of space -- there is lots of good
> stuff in there.

Can you make a list of the ten most important files in there?  I will add
them as I find a use for them.  I simply don't like this approach of
installing things in bunches because you want a few pieces of the bunch. 
I would not have known I was missing zless until you told me to use it -
there are other ways to do things without zless.

> 
> > BL1, as you have pointed out before, won't let you use 
> > binaries compiled for glibc6.  I don't have hard drive 
> > space for a compiler.
> 
> The BL2 compiler is certainly too large for your HD,
> but the BL1 compiler would fit just fine.  It needs
> less than 20mb.

> 
> > It is also simpler to go out and buy RAM instead of trying 
> > to run Linux on 4M RAM 
> 
> Indeed.  That's one reason I'm not doing a 4mb RAM version
> of BL2.  486s with eight 30pin SIMMs can be upgraded to 8mb 
> RAM for free.  You want some 1mb SIMMs?  I'll give you some 
> for free!  I don't even keep them anymore.  Tin ones go straight 
> into the trash.  I've got dozens and dozens of the damn things.  
> Ditto 4mb 72pin SIMMs.  Old PCs with 72pin SIMMs can be upgraded 
> to 16mb RAM for free!
> 
> > or to buy a new computer 
> 
> That's a whole different kettle of fish.
> 
> > but there are those of us who don't want to buy things 
> > in order to run Linux on our old computers.  
> 
> Sure.  I'm with you on that one.  But it would be silly
> to run your computer with empty SIMM slots, when suitable 
> SIMMs are free.  It's also kind of silly running a 386
> when 486s are free and Pentiums can be purchased for small
> change.

We keep finding Pentiums at the curb now.

> 
> > Do many 486s have CD-ROM burners in them?
> 
> Burners no (I don't even have a burner), but CDrom drives
> yes.  I even found a double-speed on a junked 386 once.
>  
> > I am only suggesting that you offer an alternate
> > installation without some of the 8 packages, and post 
> > the more useful files from these packages
> 
> That's not going to happen.  If you feel so strongly 
> about the matter, I suggest you set up your own website 
> and offer that alternative.  I will link to it.

But I have not found any files in bin.tgz that I need yet.  I can make a
list of the files in fileutils and binutils and bin that I can think of a
use for, for your approval, and then post them.  For instance ar and its
dependency, and sln.  If you want to list the ten most useful files in
each of these three packages I would be happy to post them (up to a few
hundred K).  Binutils is not on your list.  What are the three packages
other than bin.tgz that you did not at first think were needed and what
files in them did you decide were in fact needed?  Could all the binaries
just go into /usr/bin/?

> 
> > Do I actually need to have all 8 packages in a /slakware/ 
> > directory in order to install BL2 to hard drive? 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > Could I install with only four of the packages, using your 
> > install-to-hard-drive setup from the RAMdisk version,
> 
> No.
> 

Can I install all eight packages and then delete four of them and put back
just the files I needed from them? 

> 
> > Which four packages were the ones you had hoped not to need?
> 
> fileutils.tgz, tar.tgz, bin.tgz, grep.tgz

I will check out fileutils and bin to see which files in there seem useful
and you can add to my list.  Maybe I can make a Slackware package out of
those few files that people can download instead of two large packages.
And add a few things from binutils.tgz (ar and sln).  

I use tar all the time to unpackage packages so I can pull a file or two
out of them instead of installing the package.  It seems a lot more useful
than pkgtool.  Is there something in busybox that works like tar?