Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Steven Avery <stevenavery AT verizon.net>]

Hi,

Martin Shields.
> Finally, I'll agree with everyone else, your point that "the normal 
> procedure would have been for Jesus to pronounce YHWH when he read 
> aloud from the Tanakh, and for the NT writers to use YHWH in quotes" 
> is what you have to prove, not what you must assert! There are very 
> good indications that this was most certainly NOT the "normal procedure."

Steven
This misses the point.

Proving that Jesus pronounced YHWH would prove ... nothing .. about a 
unique proposed Hebrew insertion into a Greek autographic text by 
about 7 New Testament authors. A totally unseen and implausible 
phenomenon that contradicts known scribal habits and transmissional theory.

This is what, in quite distinct ways, has been proposed by George 
Howard and Rolf Furuli. And was selectively to doctrine ("context") 
claimed for the NWT text.  Note that this is also totally different 
than translating a Hebrew text into Greek, or a Chinese text into 
English, where, for various reasons, you might naturally leave in a 
couple of Chinese words in Chinese letters for a special purpose.

btw, I would like to know for what Greek verses George Howard 
proposed the phenomenon for theos. "the removal of the Tetragrammaton 
from the New Testament and its replacement with the surrogates kyrios 
and theos" (George Howard). Afaik the NWT and Rolf are only working 
with kyrios words.

Personally, I am more than happy to conjecturally allow the 
possibility that Jesus read aloud the Tetragrammaton,. And that this 
does absolutely nothing to get rid of the scribal habits and textual 
transmissional impossibilities of the Furuli theory. The elephants in 
the living room that he will not address.

Interestingly, one of the first writers who looked at this idea was 
Robert Baker Girdlestone (1836-1923), although he was rather cautious 
about any idea of the New Testament having an original Hebrew.  One 
of the humorous ironies is that he saw the application "contextually" 
in exactly the opposite way as Rolf Furuli, and wrote:

Synonyms of the Old Testament: Their Bearing on Christian Faith and 
Practice ( 1871)
Robert Baker Girdlestone
http://books.google.com/books?id=D3YcA72rnqQC&pg=PA73
But in Phil. 2. 9, we read that God hath highly exalted Christ Jesus, 
and hath given him the name which is above every name, that in the 
name of Jesus every knee should bow, and every tongue confess that 
Jesus Christ is Lord (surely Jehovah) to the glory of God the Father.'

Showing that doctrinal translation tampering can be a two-sided coin.

There is a work that touches on the scribal habits and textual 
transmissional issues some,

Chapter 10: Removal of the Tetragrammaton from Early Greek Manuscripts
http://www.tetragrammaton.org/tetra10.html

And this chapter does discuss very well some (not all) of the issues 
that I raised in my earlier posts.  Actually, some of the issues are 
raised in that chapter in far more depth than was in my posts.  And I 
see no real weaknesses in this section, although such might be a good 
discussion on a textual forum like TC-Alternate or possibly a web 
forum like CARM that has a history of some spirited discussion 
involving diverse viewpoints.

Earlier post

[b-hebrew] theories of Hebrew writing embedded in Greek NT autographs 
- then redaction - today proposed emendation
Steven Avery - June 10, 2013
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/b-hebrew/2013-June/050157.html

Shalom,
Steven Avery
Bayside, NY