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  • From: bhebrew AT shields-online.net
  • To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...
  • Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2013 10:12:52 +1000

Dear Rolf,

I'm aware that there are a number of responses to your argument by others, so
I'll try and keep this brief.

1. It is true that the text is unpointed (as was my Hebrew). And I agree that
your reading is only "possible," as you said. However, when used in phrases
strongly reminiscent of biblical phrases which employ Yhwh, it is more likely
that it is being used as a substitute for Yhwh.

2. You fail to deal with the details of my previous point: context and
intertextuality both lend support to the notion that אדוני serves to
replace יהוה in some (perhaps many) places in the DSS. Your objections
are just as applicable to your assertion that only אל serves as a
substitute. I don't recall that you've offered parallels to biblical texts
which demonstrate the substitution.

3. You're use of "many" is unwarranted and skews your evidence. For one,
while there are texts which include both אדוני and יהוה, there are
also many which include both אל and יהוה (i.e. 1Q14, 1QpHab, 1QS,
4Q161, 4Q163, 4Q171, 4Q173, 4Q174, 4Q175, 4Q176, 4Q177, 4Q183, 4Q219, 4Q221,
4Q222, 4Q223_224, 4Q225, 4Q248, 4Q258, 4Q265, 4Q364, 4Q368, 4Q370, 4Q372,
4Q379, 4Q381, 4Q393, 4Q408, 4Q429, 4Q522, 5Q10, 11Q11, 11Q12, 11Q19, 11Q5). A
few also include the two terms in juxtaposition.

Of the examples you cite, only 4Q163 is certain to include an expression like
אדוני יהוה where it is clear that אדוני is not being used to
replace יהוה, so your "five fragments" claim does not accurately
represent the evidence. Given that both אל and יהוה both appear in many
fragments/manuscripts, and if we apply your argument consistently, then אל
cannot be being used as a substitute for Yhwh. A consistent application of
your arguments does not make your claim stronger than the claim that אדונ
י is used as a substitute for יהוה.

Consequently the better evidence is those manuscripts which do not use
יהוה at all (if the authors were happy to use יהוה then it is not
clear why we should expect there to be ANY terms functioning as substitutes
for יהוה in those manuscripts). I've cited those examples previously and
there are good reasons to believe that אדוני is being used to replace
יהוה in a number of places based on parallels with biblical phrases. Thus
I believe your assessment of my argument is not cogent:

RF: a) It is possible that 'adonai does not occur in the DSS at all, and that
only 'adoni occurs.

MAS: I agree, in fact the former may be a Masoretic construct. It has no
bearing on the use of אדוני as a substitute for יהוה. My distinction
was between אדון and אדוני.

RF: b) In the five fragments where )DNY and YHWH are used together, )DNY is
used as a title )DNY YHWH

MAS: There are not five fragments where these appear together in
juxtaposition, there is only one. Similarly, there are many fragments which
have both אל and יהוה as I cited above. The better evidence is
manuscripts that DO NOT use יהוה at all (as I've noted repeatedly).

RF: c) The use of IDNY one time does not tell us much about the function of
the word.

MAS: I have never said it does. I have always made reference to multiple uses
in phrases that echo biblical phrases which use יהוה.

RF: d) You have not demonstrated that )DNY in any of the thirteen remaining
documents is used as a substitute for YHWH

MAS: I have done more than you have to demonstrate that אל is used in this
way. You simply dismiss the evidence which appeals to parallels with biblical
usage.

Finally, I'll agree with everyone else, your point that "the normal procedure
would have been for Jesus to pronounce YHWH when he read aloud from the
Tanakh, and for the NT writers to use YHWH in quotes" is what you have to
prove, not what you must assert! There are very good indications that this
was most certainly NOT the "normal procedure."

Regards,

Martin Shields.





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