Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Belot" <dbelot AT bigpond.net.au>]

Hi Rolf are you suggesting that from 300bc till the Mossorettic texts came 
in , what was that 700ad , all readings in the Synagogue spoke Gods name as 
, Adonai or Kurious then suddenly they started to call Him , what, DNY .

How on earth  would they pronounce that. How would they pronounce YHWH .

doug belot

-----Original Message----- 
From: Rolf
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2013 1:15 AM
To: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] G.Gertoux and the Name...

Dear Martin,

What is substitution? When the Masoretic text was recited in the synagogues, 
it is likely that )DNY was read where YHWH was written. This is vocal 
substitution. Substitution can be graphic as well, as we see in the LXX 
fragments up to 50 CE compared with the LXX manuscripts from the second 
century onword: KS was used as a substitute for YHWH.

The religious group at Qumran, at least some of the members of it, used a 
substitute for YHWH, and this substitute was )L. How can we distinguish a 
substitution from a textual variant? I counted 667 examples of )L from the 
extra-biblical DSS. Some of these could be textual variants. But when we 
look at the documents where )L is written, we see a systematic avoidance of 
YHWH and the use of )L in its stead. When we look at the contexts of the 
around 700 occurrences of )DNY in the Tanakh, we do not find a systematic 
avoidance of YHWH. But )DNY is used as a title for YHWH.

I counted 71 examples of )DNY and 317 examples of YHWH in the DSS. Most of 
the examples of )DNY occur in normal contexts, and most likely represent the 
appellative "lord," without any substitution of YHWH being visible.  I will 
consider your two examples.

4Q437.

The fragment has )DNY two times, but it is not evident that these are used 
as substitutes for YHWH. You compare the text with Psalm 103:1. The Psalm 
says:  "Praise YHWH. my soul, everything that is inside me, praise his holy 
name." 4Q437f:1:1 says:"/Praise/ )DNY, my soul. for all his wonder/ful/..." 
The texts are different, and I see no reason to conclude that 4Q437 f1:1 
quotes the Psalm. Psalm  35:17 and 38:9 address YHWH as )DNY, and Psalm 54:6 
calls YHWH both )LHYM and )DNY. We should also note that 4Q437f2i:4 says, "I 
will bless your name during my life." This is not an example of 
substitution.

1QSb

Your second example, 1QSb3:1, is more promising, because five words of the 
verse are similar to five words in Numbers 6:26, and 1QSb has (DNY where 
Numbers 6:26 has YHWH. In view of the differences between the great Isaiah 
scroll regarding YHWH and )DNY, that I already have presented, the different 
uses can be textual variation. The other words of Numbers 6:26 are not found 
in 1QSb3:1 The fragment has the name "The Rule of the Blessing," and we also 
find )DNY with reference to YHWH in the Psalms of the Tanakh where blessings 
occur. Therefore, the three times the word )DNY occur, need not be something 
unusual, and need not be substitutes for YHWH. We note that the substitute 
used for YHWH at Qumran, )L, occurs ten times in the document. Because YHWH 
occurs in Numbers 6:26 and )DNY occurs in 1QSb 3:1, it could could represent 
a substitution. However, this is by no means certain.  If you are going to 
demonstrate that )DNY was used as a substitute for YHWH, you cannot refer to 
one, two or three texts, but you must demonstrate a consistent use of )DNY 
where YHWH is expected. This is not possible in connection with the 71 
examples of )DNY in the DSS.



Best regards,



Rolf Furuli
Stavern
Norway









Mandag 10. Juni 2013 10:00 CEST skrev bhebrew AT shields-online.net:

> Hi Rolf,
>
> RF: In the Tanakh, there are more than 6,000 occurrences of YHWH and more 
> than 700 of )DNY. In about 300 cases )DNY is immediately followed by YHWH, 
> which shows that )DNY is a title. In many instances, )DNY is used alone 
> with reference to God, and the same is true with )LHYM. Please give us 
> some examples from the Tanakh where )DNY  is not used as a title for God, 
> but where it is used as a SUBSTITUTE for YHWH.
>
> MS: Why would this be relevant? In the Tanak there's no clear indication 
> that the writers had an aversion to writing יהוה, so why would we expect 
> to find anything other than יהוה when that is what they meant. The 
> aversion to speaking and writing the divine name appears to become 
> widespread after the production of the bulk, if not all, of the Tanak.
>
> RF: And Similarly with the DSS. Please show where in the DSS manuscripts 
> THAT you refer to )DNY is used as a SUBSTITUTE for YHWH.
>
> MS: Certainly. I think a case can be made for אדוני is used in place of 
> יהוה in the following sectarian texts (there may be more):
>
> 1QSb 1:3; 2:22; 3:1, 25; 5:23; 1QM 12:8, 18; 1QHa 5:15; 6:19, 34; 8:26; 
> 10:5, 22, 33; 11:6, 20, 38; 12:6; 13:7, 22; 15:9, 29, 31, 37; 16:5; 17:38; 
> 18:16; 19:30, 36; 1Q34bis f2+1:4, 6; 4Q200 f6:9; 4Q269 f16:7; 4Q384 f2:1; 
> 4Q392 f1:3; 4Q410 f1:7; 4Q428 f9:1, 3; f10:11; f12i:4; 4Q432 f3:1; f12:4; 
> 4Q434 f1i:1; 4Q435 f5:3–4; 4Q437 f1:1; f2i:13–15; 4Q459 f1:2; 4Q504 
> f1_2Rii:7; f1_2Rvi:3, 10; f3ii:5; f4:14, 16; f5ii:3; f6:20; f8R:1; 4Q506 
> f124:3; 4Q507 f2:2; f3:1, 3; 4Q508 f2:2; f13:1; 4Q509 f3:9; f4:4; 
> f10ii_11:7; f18:3; f131_132ii:5; f206:1; f285:1; 4Q521 f2ii+4:3–5, 11; 
> f2iii:3; f5i+6:4; f7+5ii:2, 4, 7; f8:10, 11; f9:2; 4Q526 f1:1; 4Q527 f1:1; 
> 4Q577 f4:2.
>
> Of these, perhaps the clearest are those which quote or allude to biblical 
> passages. A couple of examples:
>
> 4Q437 f1:1
> [ברכי ]נפשי את אדוני
> compare Ps 103:1
> ברכי נפשי את יהוה
>
> Similarly, 1QSb 3:1
> ישא אדוני פניו אליכה
> compare Num 6:26
> ישא יהוה פניו אליך
>
> Regards,
>
> Martin Shields.



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