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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] fred on 2 tenses at the same sentence

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  • From: Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu>
  • To: fred burlingame <tensorpath AT gmail.com>
  • Cc: b-hebrew List <b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] fred on 2 tenses at the same sentence
  • Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 20:16:29 -0500

1. Gramaticalization merely means the arbitrary designating of such combinations as pp+verb to have the grammatical form of a future action. Hence TA-B-IY is essentially: she-B-it = she-bring-it.
2. I don't divide a word into syllables, I only separate the prefixes and suffixes from the body of the verb. The root of ZAMMAH is ZMM, and AH is 'she'.
3. A "sleeper" property is a good, yet an unassuming, property, not calling attention to itself, which can acquired under favorable conditions.
4. We are in agreement. pp+verb indicates future action only if you want it, or need it, to represent future action. Ex. 15:1 opens with AZ YA-$IYR MO$E, where YA-$IYR is but he-sing, namely: then he-sing, moses.
5. MELEL is a mouthful, MALE) of words. It is related to to MLIYL-AH of Deut. 23:36.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Feb 2, 2011, at 6:31 PM, fred burlingame wrote:

Hello Isaac;

Thanks for your instructive comments.

"Gramaticalization" is kind of a big word ... for me anyhow; but if i hear you correctly, the richness and the depth of the hebrew language defies compartmentalization into "rule" boxes.
1. The song (proverbs 31:10-31) speaks to past, present, and future; or the timeless character of אשת חיל (e-shet ha-yil) .

2. Proverbs 31:16 utilizes a suffixed verb (zam-mah) זממה . I am not sure why you divide the pronunciation "zamm-ah?" I am also not sure what you mean by "sleeper properties" and "keeping her eyes open," in the context of this verse. If you mean the suffixed verb speaks to the past tense, but the poet also implies & intends to convey the present and future tenses, I agree.
3. Proverbs 31:11, uses a prefixed verb (ye-h-sar) יחסר . I agree with your sentiment that the future tense expressed here.

4. Proverbs 31:14, adopts a prefixed verb also (ta-vi) תביא . And I agree with your conclusion of timelessness here.

My conclusion therefore becomes similar to my comments to Nir. ....; Prefixed and suffixed verbs generally mark future and past tenses, respectively, but actual usage can (and frequently does) change and enlarge the tenses indicated by the verb.

And finally, if lamed ל means "lofty;" what about מלל (ma-lal)? How do we arrive at a verb meaning "speak," from "lofty" letter root meaning? The meaning of mem?

regards,

fred burlingame

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
You are right, an E$-ET XAYIL is always an E$-ET XAYIL, from age 12 to her last day, and then her daughters become each in her turn an E $-ET XAYIL. The whole thing is timeless. Do you want the author to declare that she had her eyes open for "sleeper" properties (ZAMM- AH SADEH), that she is now keeping her eyes open for "sleeper", properties, and even in coming years she will still have her eyes open for "sleeper" properties? The poet talks about proven acts in the past with the understanding that by virtue of the universal law of continuity they will remain such.
When it comes to V-$ALAL LO YE-XSAR, I feel the future promise of LO YE-XSAR, there will be never a lack of food. Yet, in MI-ME-RXAQ TA-B-IY LAXM-AH, I see TA-B-IY as timeless, as merely she-bring-it, with gramaticalization thrown to the wind.
The word XAYIL from the root XL, has an L indicating elevation.

Isaac Fried, Boston University








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