Biblical Hebrew Forum

[fred burlingame <tensorpath AT gmail.com>]

Hello Isaac;

I enjoyed your story of hebrew family life.

Females (and others) today however, seem to have a different interpretation
of these verb tenses. Rather than recounting the mother's "past" actions, in
the week preceding shabat; the אשת חיל (e-shet ha-yil) rehearses the
woman's actions as the "present" attributes of the mother?

http://www.hillel.org/NR/rdonlyres/D8427B98-3F42-4F74-A355-AA9088FF8E15/0/eshet_chayil.pdf

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0006_0_06079.html

Do you conclude that the formal and literal meaning of these verbs includes
past tense, the above comments notwithstanding?

And חיל of course represents a most interesting word. 1 samuel 2:4 conveys
"strength." But Isaiah 26:17 implies "twisting" in pain of child birth. What
is the root meaning that can provoke such opposite usages?

regards,

fred burlingame

On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:

> 1. DAR$-AH is present? E$ET XAIL is the main shabat-night PIUT, sung before
> meal with great gusto, extolling the virtuous and diligent deeds of Mrs.
> Busy-Busy (who is sitting beaming at the table opposite her husband, Mr.
> GEBER-GEBER, with all her children around her K-$TIYL-EY ZEIT-IYM) during
> the previous week (during the week Mr. GEBER-GEBER is busy sitting at the
> town gate with "ZIQN-EI AREC").
> 2. VA-TA-AS is: (and it came to pass that)-she-do. The past is indicated by
> the attached verb VA.
>
> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
>
>  On Feb 2, 2011, at 9:52 AM, fred burlingame wrote:
>
>  lol
>
> i'm happy for the agreement with the mainstream conclusion.
>
> but  .... then we arrive at  .... proverbs 31:13 .....
>
> 1. root + PP indicates present acton, as in "dar-sha?"
>
> 2. VA + PP + root indicates present action, as in "va-ta-as?"
>
> i agree with your paragraph 4, assuming the equivalency of "bet" and "vav"
> letters.
>
> regards,
>
> fred burlingame
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Appears to me that we are in agreement without the need for "conversion".
>> PP = personal pronoun.
>> 1. root+PP indicates past action, as in BA-TA = BA-ATAH.
>> 2. PP+root indicates future action as in TA-BO. Also PP+root+PP, as in
>> TA-BO-YI.
>> 3. VA+PP+root indicates past action, as in VA-TA-BO. Also VA+PP+root+PP,
>> as in VA-TA-BO-YI.
>> 4. It is really late at night, but can we agree that VA means something
>> like 'and it came to pass that'?
>> 5. It is not clear to me at the moment what is the role of the L in
>> VA-YI-LAKAX, 'he was taken', as compared with VA-YI-KAX, 'he took'.
>>
>> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>
>>  On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:52 PM, fred burlingame wrote:
>>
>>  that is my understanding .... of the mainstream view ....
>>
>> vav prefixed to a pronomial prefixed verb .... functions as
>>
>> a. conjunction; and
>>
>> b. tense converter.
>>
>> but i am not unmindful of your teaching .... to wit:
>>
>> ו (vav) = ב (bet), whose literal meaning = thicken; and whose abstract
>> meaning = to come into being; and which latter letter births in turn the
>> verb בוא (boh or voh).
>>
>> perhaps the solution resides in the eternal perspective, rather than the
>> space/time perspective of our universe. .... in other words, the hebrew
>> language sees only the present .... or "avraham acts again and takes a
>> woman" ....; no past; no future, only present; and pronomial suffixed verbs
>> = pronomial prefixed verbs .... much as noun synonyms ... :)
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> fred burlingame
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:32 PM, Isaac Fried <if AT math.bu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> 3. So is this a "conjunction" vav (it is actually VA, not a mere V) or a
>>> "conversive" vav, or both?
>>>
>>> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>>>
>>>  On Feb 1, 2011, at 11:04 PM, fred burlingame wrote:
>>>
>>>  that is my understanding of the conventional wisdom ... the ebb and
>>> flow of the tide:
>>>
>>> 1. לקח , la-ka = base form of verb, pronomial suffix form (but without
>>> pronoun appearing in this instance), and instructing past tense;
>>>
>>> 2. יקח , yi-ka = iteration no. 1, pronomial prefix form of verb, with
>>> pronoun yod appearing and instructing future tense;
>>>
>>> 3. ויקח , va-yi-ka = iteration no. 2, pronomial prefix form of verb, with
>>> pronoun yod appearing, and conjunction vav also prefixed, which converts
>>> verb back into past tense.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> fred burlingame
>>>
>>>
>
>