Biblical Hebrew Forum

[Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com>]

Karl,

I'm failing to understand you.
Did you read the supposition I wrote about of the plural (of English nouns)
that would end in -k?
If a given language lacks a given form (or pattern or structure).... what
does this mean if not that this form (or pattern or structure) does not
exist in this language?

If a given pattern is found nowhere within a wide range of texts in this
language...  is it reasonable to think that maybe the form/pattern/structure
in question exists?

If someone asks concerning the French language: is it possible that a word
ending -am is a third person plural of the Present tense of a (French)
verb?  ........ the answer is NO. Why?  Because this "pattern" -this ending
-am for a third person plural of present tense-  is not found in the French
language...


Did you read my post on piel participles of verbs ayin-waw/yod I sent to the
list two or three days ago?  Did you read the answer of Randall Buth to my
post?

Heartly,

Pere Porta








2010/10/26 K Randolph <kwrandolph AT gmail.com>

> Pere:
>
>  You still have not answered my question.
>
>>
> You keep repeating that you made a study, but what good is a study if it is
> based on the wrong presuppositions? What standards did you use to determine
> that there are no examples of a piel participle of the form mem + two root
> letters? This has been my question for the last few posts.
>
> If the reason is the Masoretic points and/or tradition, I have good reason
> to reject the results of your study as authoritative, as the Masoretic
> points are unquestionably wrong at times, and tradition, well, that’s like
> the game of telegraph.
>
> Karl W. Randolph.
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Pere Porta <pporta7 AT gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>             (PP) My statement, Karl, is an empirical one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>   I did'nt presuppose  anything at all. I only made a deep search of
>>>>>> the real structures of Hebrew, those that really exist, the existing
>>>>>> patterns of the real Hebrew language...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> And regarding pattern (M + TWO root consonants)....  none is a Pi'el
>>>> Participle. NONE!
>>>>
>>>
>>> (KR) Pere, you know that this is not my usual way, I don’t like to keep
>>> bugging people when they don’t answer my questions, but here it is again,
>>> how do you determine that such a pattern does not exist in Biblical 
>>> Hebrew?
>>> What clues are you using? Please give details, not just blanket statements
>>> that don’t mean anything.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> If you don’t answer my questions this time, I’ll have to conclude that
>>> you don’t have any reasons for your claim other than possibly tradition
>>> and/or the Masoretic points, both of which are bruised reeds.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>   (PP)
>>>>>>
>>>>> Let us suppose, Karl, that you spent a lot of time to deeply search
>> about the English language structure: you read Shakespeare and dozens of
>> books, dictionaries and so on.
>> Within this research task NO English noun has been found having its plural
>> ending in -k.
>>  And let us suppose now that someone comes and asks you: Are there in
>> the  English language any nouns having their plural ending in -k?
>>
>> What would you tell him as for an answer, Karl?
>>
>> Maybe you'd say that though you found NO nouns whose plural end is -k
>> ..... maybe there are some nouns -not yet discovered-  having their plural
>> in -k?
>>
>> Now, I'm thinking...... if maybe I didn't rightly understand your
>> question. Are you asking how I know that NONE of the eleven patterns found
>> in the Hebrew language that consist of (M + TWO root consonants) is a Piel
>> Participle?
>>
>> Is just this your precise question?
>> Maybe you think that it is possible that a 12th pattern exists -not yet
>> discovered-  which is just a Piel Participle?
>>
>> Kind regards.
>>
>> Pere Porta
>>
>>
>
>>
>>
>
>


--