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b-hebrew - Re: [b-hebrew] Dying, you will die Gen 2:17

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  • From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
  • To: "'Shoshanna Walker'" <rosewalk AT concentric.net>
  • Cc: b-hebrew AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Dying, you will die Gen 2:17
  • Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 00:55:36 -0400

So what do I, or any of us Jews who spend our time observing Torah and learning it as best we can, each to our own ability, care what Peter says?

And I don't know what Hebrew or other schools you attended, or what they taught you, or what their strengths or deficiencies in education were, or that of your family, or what college, or what rabbis you talked to, that is not my responsibility.

And what, are you asking ME to give you exact sources, verses, in all of Talmud, Midrash, Mishna, Kabbala, Rashi, Rambam, Ramban, Radak, Zohar, Ramchal, Arizal, and all of the Neviim, and Shoftim, and Tannaim and Rishonim and Acharonim, etc., etc., etc., all of the transmitters of Mesorah, which we know exactly who each and every one of them were, in every generation, - you are asking ME to prove to you that there is Torah She'B'al Peh which was given to Moshe together with Torah She'B'chtav, and was even given to Adam HaRishon, after he repented for three days, and transmitted from him to every worthy person in every generation (How did Noach know which were the "clean, ie' kosher, animals before the Torah was given to us formally as a People, which the Torah records that he took seven of those, and two of all the rest into the Teiva? - and how, by the way, do you think that he managed all of them, without being able to communicate with them, and in order to do that, from Whom do you think he got that little bit of information?) just because of the deficiency of your Jewish education?

If you truly want to know, you will seek til you find the answer, it is not my job to educate you. Or maybe you can just read Torah and some basic Commentaries seriously.

They didn't have to claim it - they didn't have to prove themselves to ignoramuses like me and you - they were living, breathing, sleeping Torah! They were working to perfect themselves, their personal attributes, their devotions, etc. for this one and only purpose - to become worthy to know Torah, in its depths, as deep as they were qualified to learn. Who would EVER question them as you are?

If you want to know, you have to study Torah, it is not MY burden of proof.



From: Shoshanna Walker

Romans is not the word of G-d, it doesn't even allege that.
[Steve Miller]
2 Peter 3:16 says that Paul's writings are Scripture.

Shoshanna,
Thank you for writing. Where do the Talmud, Mishnah and Rashi commentaries
claim to be the word of God?

I was raised Orthodox and went to Hebrew school and Hebrew college, and I
was not taught that the Talmud, Mishnah or Rashi were part of the word of
God. My mother told us that the Talmud was written by sages much wiser than
us, but we did not believe that it was the word of God like the Tanach is.
I have talked to many rabbis, and I have never met any who believe like you
seem to, that Rashi's commentary is the authoritative explanation of the
Tanach.

Here is a previous post on the subject by Yitzhak Saphir:
The idea that there is an oral law equally as authoritative as the
written law is highly dubious to me. You say that this prevents
mistranslation, but it allows the importation of every kind of merely
human idea and even perversion of God's word. God warns against adding
to his word, and a proposed "oral law" does just that. It presents
something as having the same authority as the written word, from what
you say, and thereby adds to God's word.

However, Shoshanna's interpretation of Rashi and Midrash as part of this
oral law is not shared by all Jews. It is an extreme interpretation that
essentially says that Rashi or the Rabbis of the Midrash whom he often
quotes was not a great scholar but simply a scribe who wrote something
handed down to him from the days of Moses. While that may describe
much of his work (much of Rashi is effectively quotes from the Midrash),
he was also a great scholar and a true understanding of Rashi can only
be achieved by seeing all his quoted sources (which are many!) and
identifying which parts he chose to quote, which he chose not to quote,
what he chose to add of his own, and answering why he chose to do what
he did.


Thanks,
-Steve Miller
Detroit
www.voiceInWilderness.info




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