Biblical Hebrew Forum

[davidfentonism AT aim.com]

  Yes, Peter, I agree with your points here in the main. But, relative to the 
biblical text we are always discusing a fixed period of time (when the texts 
were written). I am at a tremendous disadvantage here as a 
non-Hebrew/non-Greek speaker. Notwithstanding, "daughter of Zion" and other 
idioms don't have to be live today to convey their contextual meaning(s). 
  
 -----Original Message-----
 From: peter AT qaya.org
 
 
  On 20/11/2006 01:38, davidfentonism AT aim.com wrote: 
 > I think the notion that thought bears no direct relationship to language 
 > is inaccurate. Hebrew thoughtforms are directly linked to its language 
 > units. This is not always the case with greek because of its propensity 
 > for abstractions. However, in Hebrew, thoughtforms/language is tied to 
 > instances or things existing in reality (e.g., the idea of stiffneckedness 
 > like an ox). 
 > > I will try to stick to matters of Hebrew language in replying here, and 
 > > avoid being distracted into comparative philosophy. 
 
 I agree that "the notion that thought bears NO direct relationship to 
language is inaccurate", with the emphasis which I have added. But the 
strength and directness of that relationship has often been greatly 
overstated. 
 
 Of course all languages, including Greek, use words derived from metaphors 
like "stiff-necked". But at this point we need to consider in what sense this 
kind of metaphorical language "is tied to instances or things existing in 
reality". In general this kind of language starts with metaphors or poetic 
imagery, and at that point there is a real tie to real things. An example of 
this, similar to your "stiff-necked" one, might be Psalm 32:9. But these 
kinds of metaphors can and do become fixed expressions or idioms, dead 
metaphors, which then lose their tie to real things. Thus in English at least 
people today can speak of unbridled passions without even knowing what a 
literal bridle is. There are similar idioms in English based on obsolete 
items and customs which are understood literally only by specialists, but are 
in everyday use as idioms. And the same is true in every language. 
 
 In biblical Hebrew, we don't always know which metaphors are alive and which 
are dead, but it is highly improbable that every metaphor is fully alive and 
so "tied to instances or things existing in reality" as you suggest. 
Certainly there are so many idioms with "son of" and "daughter of" that 
expressions like "daughter of Zion" cannot be taken as live metaphors. 
Another clear example of a probably dead metaphors is the use of 'APPAYIM and 
HARON 'AP for "anger". Now this clearly started at some stage as a metaphor, 
snorting from the nose representing anger. But over centuries, probably, 
these words simply became normal ways of talking about "anger". It would be 
quite wrong to imply from the use of these words that Hebrew thinking about 
anger was tied to the existence of or conscious thinking about noses. 
 
 -- Peter Kirk 
 E-mail: peter AT qaya.org 
 Blog: http://speakertruth.blogspot.com/ 
 Website: http://www.qaya.org/ 
    
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