Biblical Hebrew Forum

["Lee R. Martin" <lmartin AT vol.com>]

Dear Trevor,
Thanks for your reply.
Can you show me other examples where the relative clause ('aSheR) is the
predicate with the verb "to be" understood?  If your translation (and RSV) is
correct, I would have expected TiHeYeh to be repeated.
Lee R. Martin

Trevor M Peterson wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:00:06 -0500 "Lee R. Martin" <lmartin AT vol.com>
> writes:
> >To one and all,
> >
> >Please translate Joel 3:5.
> >My specific question: Is the RSV justified in separating the last
> >relative clause by means of "shall be."
> >It reads: "and among the survivors shall be those whom the Lord
> >calls."
>
> I went back and checked to see how I translated it a few months ago,
> before I knew your question:  "And it will happen that everyone who calls
> upon the name of Yahweh will be delivered, for there will be those who
> escape on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, just as Yahweh said, and those
> whom Yahweh calls among the survivors."  I don't remember exactly why I
> rendered it that way, but looking back at the text, I'm thinking it was
> because I took PLY+H and &RYDYM to refer to the same general idea.
>
> >Therefore, the RSV makes 3:5 say two things: 1) in Jerusalem shall be
> >escape, 2) in the survivors shall be called ones.
>
> Correct.
> >
> >I prefer the following translation: "In Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
> >there shall be escape and among those whom Yahweh shall be calling."
>
> I think you left something out here, since you don't have the survivors
> anywhere.
>
> >Another way to write it would be "In Mount Zion, in Jerusalem, in the
> >God-Called-Survivors there shall be escape."
> >
> >The last clause uses the participle because the action of calling is
> >simultaneous with the "escape" earlier in the verse.  The escape
> >becomes
> >more specific/narrow-focused as the verse comes to a close.  Escape
> >will
> >be in Mt. Zion, which is Jerusalem, but more specifically, escape will
> >be among the God-Called-Remnant.
>
> Does &RYDYM necessarily refer to the remnant, or is it those who escape?
> In other words, I think it's a question of whether there is a larger
> group that escapes, among whom there are some called, or a larger group
> that is called, among whom some escape.  I don't know that the decision
> can be made grammatically.
> >
> >Also notice the repetition of "call,"  and the synonyms for "deliver/
> >escape."
>
> Well, if I see the correlation you're making, the other way might work
> better.  If everyone who calls on the name of Yahweh is the same group as
> those whom Yahweh calls, we would expect some explanation as to why they
> are all saved.  Therefore, a rendering that makes them a part of the
> group that survives, rather than indicating that potentially only part of
> those called will survive, seems to do a better job of proving the first
> half of the verse.
>
> Trevor Peterson
> Bible/Theology Department
> Washington Bible College
> Lanham, MD
>
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