sm-sorcery AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Discussion of Sorcery related topics
List archive
- From: Tony Smith <tony AT smee.org>
- To: Sergey A Lipnevich <sergeyli AT pisem.net>
- Cc: sm-sorcery AT lists.ibiblio.org
- Subject: Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...
- Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:56:44 +0100
On Monday 07 October 2002 4:59 pm, Sergey A Lipnevich wrote:
> One of the things neglected about Sorcery is that it relies on the file
> system as its primary storage, a kind of database. Spell name's primary
> source is its directory name, /not/ the name in DETAILS, so your first
> example is wrong. If DETAILS has the spell name different from its
> directory name, it's a bug. So, in your example 1, there is no need to
> parse DETAILS files at all.
Good point. OK. A more real-world example then. Write a script to figure out
the versions of all the spells in the current grimoire. With a non-executable
DETAILS file that would be trivial. With an executable DETAILS file it's not.
> The choice of language is second to the choice of environment.
Err.... the tail wags the dog?
> By
> environment I mean the space where all the variables are stored during
> execution. Currently, it's bash environment, and any language capable of
> storing a variable in there, will do. If you can `export VAR=value' in
> Python, use Python right now, with good reasoning I doubt anyone would
> through a stone at you.
You can export vars in almost any language you care to name.
> That's how our code snippets talk to each other.
> Environment is one of the components of the application platform, so,
> however unusual that may sound, bash is our application platform,
> because it is our tool of maintaining state during execution.
In the current implementation. You are assuming it always has to be that way.
I'm not saying it shouldn't, but it doesn't have to be.
> Note that,
> using Perl, you have to change the structure of sorcery to at least have
> a central script that runs everything, otherwise your execution state is
> gone whenever the script finishes -- Perl's VM doesn't stay in memory
> after the script has finished, bash does.
Huh? The environment of a perl process is no different to that of any other
process including bash. Both environments die with the process. It's got
nothing to do with choice of language and everything to do with the
fork()/exec() model. The environment is passed down across a fork()/exec().
If you're talking about "dotting" a ( ". my.sh" ) script then that's roughly
the same as a perl/python/ruby "eval"
> If we choose Mono, this will
> be our application platform, but it requires a server, for the same
> purpose -- maintain execution state.
>
> That's why bash is better than anything as a lightweight application
> platform -- it stays between script executions, Perl, Python, C++, etc,
> do not have such advantage without extra effort. It has many programming
> disadvantages, but believe it or not, it's not the worst infrastructure
> we may have.
>
> How's that for language wars :-)?
Well, the argument was weak, but I liked the conclusion :-)
Tony
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...
, (continued)
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Robin, 10/10/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Ryan Abrams, 10/10/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Tony Smith, 10/08/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Dufflebunk, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Aaron Brice, 10/08/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Dufflebunk, 10/08/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Aaron Brice, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Sergey A Lipnevich, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Tony Smith, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Sergey A Lipnevich, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Tony Smith, 10/08/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Sergey A Lipnevich, 10/08/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Dufflebunk, 10/08/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Sergey A Lipnevich, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Tony Smith, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Sergey A Lipnevich, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Tony Smith, 10/08/2002
-
Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars...,
Eric Schabell, 10/08/2002
- Re: [SM-Sorcery]Language wars..., Nick Jennings, 10/08/2002
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