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  • From: Remko van der Vossen <wich AT yuugen.jp>
  • To: SM-Discuss <sm-discuss AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [SM-Discuss] Biting Bullets
  • Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 11:17:03 +0200

On Sat, Sep 06, 2014 at 12:53:13PM -0400, Sukneet Basuta wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Remko van der Vossen <wich AT yuugen.jp> wrote:
> - Everyone should move to as-needed aggressively; switch on as-needed
>   and sorcery rebuild your systems
>
> If we are going to rely on this, it should be pushed as the default in
> Sorcery
> with a warning if one wants to disable it.

I'm not sure a warning is necessary, it's not like it is any worse than
it is now, we've been "relying on our DEPENDS" tree since always. But
yes, I think it should become the default. Not 100% sure though where
the default is recorded, might be in sorcery or in archspecs, or both
even. And even if we make the default for it to be enabled, we still
need to inform people to actually enable it as just switching the
default will not mean that it will get enabled for everyone.

> I'd like to request that everyone who opens a devel branch create a bug
> stating
> why it was created, what is needed to get it merged into test, and the
> specific
> spells of interest. This will help keep everyone in the loop and allow other
> people to contribute. As it stands, I only really know what is going on in
> the
> devel-xorg branch because I've played around with it quite a bit. As an
> example: http://www.sourcemage.org/issues/423

While I agree with the sentiment I'm not sure how much it's going to
help us now. One of the main problems we have now is lack of time and
motivation. Extra stuff people need to do without any direct positive
consequences is only likely to hold people back at the moment. As it is
I'm just grateful that we've had a slight upturn in activity lately and
personally I'll take it in whichever way it comes.

> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Thomas Orgis <thomas-forum AT orgis.org> wrote:
> > So, what do we do about this problem? Again, we cheat! We find all
> > dependers, not by our dependency tree, but by checking all installed
> > spells for dynamic ELF objects
>
> I sense that this should be either done once for the whole system
> (using cleanse) and cached, further automatically on each cast after
> INSTALL, right? That way, using `gaze from` style look-up, we can even
> auto-suggest additions to DEPENDS. Actually ... how does that relate
> to `cleanse --delint`?
>
>
> +1
> We could do this before every spell is installed and store all the link
> dependencies in a file. Then maybe add them as a depends whenever it is
> recast?
> It may help with better dependency resolution. 

As I explained in my reply to Thomas, too much work to be considering
right now in my opinion. I feel we should be considering on biting the
bullets in order to move forward and at least create a workable solution
for future ABI incompatible upgrades. We can work on making things
better at a later stage.

> Ah, back we are: I wondered who these "owners" are. I do have some
> interest in the xorg branch, as it's the only thing that works for me. I
> have a hard time with the decisions there, though. Is mesalib-1x
> supposed to be renamed to mesalib again? The old spell (and thus, the
> MESALIB provider) is useless now. Also, we should settle treatment of
> llvm upgrades (see sm-commit), as it's a sensitive requirement for
> current mesalib.
>
> I personally detest all these spell-1x spells. When I type "cast
> packageName",
> I expect the latest stable upstream version. If I didn't look into sorcery
> every now and again, I wouldn't be aware of spells like mesalib-1x.

Yes, I think we should agree on the spell "$package" being the latest
stable version subject to it properly compiling and working in and of
itself. If we need older stale or devel/experimental versions to support
specific other packages that do not work with the latest stable those
should be of the form "$package-whatever". The other alternative is what
we did with for instance ruby, name all different spell versions of the
package "$package-whatever" and make the "$package" spell a selector for
the other ones.

Regards, Remko




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