permaculture

[joao pedro goncalves <joaovox@gmail.com>]

a mailing list called "the methodology and recipes
from Permaculture"

or better perhaps:  "the methologies and recipes from permaculture
practioners" ?
if each person accepts being self-entitled then those (recipes etc) are
each person responsability ...

and then another one "the ethics of permaculture practitioners" ?

and then another one, and another ...


On Sun, Jul 17, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
wrote:

> as a follow on from "Satirical Irony "...Thanks for the prompt
> Lawrence....we have beaten this subject up several times over recent
> years...seems people still don't get it. I personally do not ever intend to
> offer any abuse or insult of any person. I prefer not to beat around the
> bush. But being frank, blunt and honest maybe does not fit with the Dharma
> of our family?.
>
> Wes has finally found the delete button. One option for many.
>
> Scott has pointed it out clearly enough...but, its perhaps a subject we
> need to give a lot more time and obviously creedance to. Perhaps most of
> what this subject entails is sadly lacking or missing completely from many
> PDCs today. Bob's work would be a great start for all students and
> teachers.
>
> The reality is we can not avoid the thieves, liars, cheats, charlatans and
> all other nature of critter that wants to enter any domain. Perhaps many in
> our family are honest folk who assume everyone else in the family is
> equally honest, warm and fuzzy. But, when a rouge virus enters what do we
> do about it? We obviously have not built up the resilience needed to work
> our way through it.
>
> My original entry enticing this debate was titled "Satirical Irony
> -ironically
> satirical ...seems so to me..or is  it my sick or black humour ?"
>
> It seems there has been angst portrayed and many comments have diverted
> considerably from the subject.
>
> The simple reality to me again as Scott points out this entire subject is
> very key to the whole subject of Permaculture. If Scrooge, Toby et all want
> nuts and bolts design and how to on pruning paw paw perhaps Lawrence what's
> needed is another site..called ironically, "the methodology and recipes
> from Permacultre". Irony in a way because it seems most courses today focus
> on recipes rather than ethics and principles and the respect for the
> original curricula.
>
> I have mooted many times the idea of a Post PDC an Advanced PDC in
> Invisible Structures. ...when you have your book done Scott maybe we could
> collaborate on thisn
>
> Keep it open and flowing Lawrence....Steve Hart
>
> On 17 July 2016 at 06:16, Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Bob's invisible structures outline is excellent! As a way of launching
> the
> > discussion of many of them in PDC's I have been showing a phenomenal film
> > about the Pruitt-Igoe Public Housing Projects that were built in St.
> Louis
> > in the 1950's. That housing project has become infamous worldwide and is
> > used significantly in books about the failures of urban planning and
> > architectural design. This film explains the greater context for those
> > failures, which is really the failure of industrialized economics and
> > segregated thinking, and the effect that has had on the most vulnerable
> in
> > society, as well as the aftershocks we are experiencing today. I highly
> > recommend showing this to students, particularly if they live in the US
> and
> > are majority white. The film and the resulting discussions change peoples
> > lives.
> >
> > The Pruitt-Igoe Myth
> > http://www.pruitt-igoe.com/
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 8:47 PM, Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Here's the table of contents of the Invisible Structures section of my
> > > ebook on urban permaculture.  If this looks interesting, you can buy
> the
> > > whole ebook for $1.99 at http://www.ipermie.net. (You can buy a pdf
> > > format at the site, or follow links to ebook superstores like Amazon
> > > kindle, Apple iStore, etc to buy versions suitable for other ereader
> > > platforms.)
> > >
> > > Bob Waldrop, Okie City
> > >
> > >
> > >  Section 1: Invisible Structures
> > >
> > > It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
> > > society. /Jiddu Krishnamurti/
> > >
> > > Justice and power must be brought together, so that whatever is just
> may
> > > be powerful, and whatever is powerful may be just. /Blaise Pascal/
> > >
> > > *Section List of Chapters*
> > >
> > > *01011 Invisible Structure Basics* <#ref_01011>
> > > Structures, systems, religions, organizations, political and economic
> > > systems, all the "software" that makes human societies work. We move
> > > towards creating a society where it is easier to care for people, care
> > for
> > > the planet, and have a care for the future.
> > >
> > > *01021 Invisible structures for urban and college permaculture*
> > > <#ref_01021>
> > > The special circumstances involving invisible structures of urban and
> > > college/university situations.
> > >
> > > *01031 Design issues in our urban realities* <#ref_01031>
> > > The importance of local governments. 18 urban design imperatives.
> > Problems
> > > of cities.
> > >
> > > *01041 Invisible Structure Toolbox* <#ref_01041>
> > > 14 interesting permaculture design tools useful in urban areas.
> > >
> > > *01051 Zones in Invisible Structures* <#ref_01051>
> > > Memes, habits/behaviors, structures, systems, communities, cultures,
> > > peoples, species. Eight zones for permaculture work.
> > >
> > > *01061 Observations About Invisible Structures* <#ref_01061>
> > > Invisible structures have consequences. Changing invisible structures
> has
> > > consequences. Be careful! The problem of unintended consequences.
> > >
> > > *01071 Succession and Invisible Structures* <#ref_01071>
> > > Memetic evidence of damaged cultural ecologies, first, second, and
> third
> > > order change agents.
> > >
> > > *01081 Extended Families, Groups, Organizations* <#ref_01081>
> > > The utility and importance of voluntary cooperation and kinship bonds.
> > >
> > > *01091 Open Source Resistance and the Occupy Movement* <#ref_01091>
> > > Replicating lessons from the Occupy movement.
> > >
> > > *01101 Community Permaculture Projects* <#ref_01101>
> > > Ideas for community permaculture projects in cities and on campus.
> > >
> > > *01111 The problem of rent-seeking* <#ref_01111>
> > > What happens when invisible structures corrupt and go bad.
> > >
> > > *01121 Structures of Control and Liberation* <#ref_01121>
> > > Memes of control and liberation. How those in control stay in power and
> > > how they oppress the rest of us. The importance of self-fulfilling
> > > prophecies.
> > >
> > > *01131 War, peace, and justice* <#ref_01131>
> > > Laying the foundation for a future of peace with justice.
> > >
> > > *01141 The Melbourne Principles* <#ref_01141>
> > > Ten principles for sustainable cities, adopted in 2002.
> > >
> > > *01151 The Methods of Nonviolent Action* <#ref_01151>
> > > From the Albert Einstein Institution, by Dr. Gene Sharp, 198 ideas for
> > > nonviolent action. Used here with permission of the author..
> > >
> > > *01161 Social Justice and the Oppression of the Poor* <#ref_01161>
> > > More on invisible structures gone wrong. How modern societies oppress
> the
> > > poor and profit from it.
> > >
> > > *01171 Invisible Structure Inventory* <#ref_01171>
> > > The beginning of an inventory of your involvement with invisible
> > > structures and your first thoughts on necessary evolutions in invisible
> > > structures.
> > >
> > > *01181 Invisible Structure Design Issues* <#ref_01181>
> > > Two design challenges to get you started.
> > >
> > > *01191 Additional resources for Invisible Structures* <#ref_01191>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7/15/2016 7:32 PM, scott@permaculture.org wrote:
> > >
> > >> I thought you would never ask!!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>   On Fri, Jul 15, 2016 at 7:52 PM, <scott@permaculture.org> wrote:
> > >>>     >  Life is not "just" about how to sharpen colters to get cleaner
> > >>> planting
> > >>>   > rows, nor how to make maple syrup it is also about how to deal
> > with
> > >>> greed,
> > >>>   >
> > >>>     Reality check: I have no clue as to how to deal with greed. Do
> you?
> > >>> Please
> > >>>   enlightn us. I am tired of tilting at windmills when I need to be
> > >>> totally
> > >>>   occupied with survival.
> > >>>   Seriously. No pi in the sky for me. No religion and no politics
> > either.
> > >>>   Just survival and when I have made progress then I will gladly help
> > >>> others.
> > >>>
> > >> One  way to stop greed is to develop systems that do not reward greed.
> > >> One of the best models I know of is the Mondragon Co-op system in the
> > >> Basque country of Spain.  This is a system that does not allow anyone
> in
> > >> the co-op make more than six times the pay of the lowest paid co-op
> > >> member.  Guess what?  If the ceo wants to make more money he has to
> > find a
> > >> way to see that the lowest paid also makes more money.  The worker
> owned
> > >> co-ops are starting to appear in the US particularly in Ohio and they
> > are
> > >> keeping jobs in the community  and operating based on the second and
> > third
> > >> ethics of permaculture.
> > >>
> > >>>       > how to share resources and information and much much more.
> > >>>   >
> > >>>     EX ACT LY. By all means share resources and information and
> > whatever
> > >>> else
> > >>>   we feel incluned to share. This is what I have been promoting in
> this
> > >>> list
> > >>>   from its start in 1992.
> > >>>     Ah, the psychology behind getting people to follow a cause. Try
> > >>> luring them
> > >>>   with the food you have taught them to raise for themselves and
> their
> > >>>   grateful neighbors in the communities they helped build. Do it now,
> > >>> before
> > >>>   all humanity of engulfed in the war machine and full bkown
> corporate
> > >>>   domination using the war machine to gain its objectives, just like
> in
> > >>> the
> > >>>   Hollywood movies, like Blade Runner.
> > >>>     How about a balance between posts on dealing with greed versus
> > >>> ethics and
> > >>>   concentrated permaculture design and site construction. With the
> > latter
> > >>>   comes POWER to people. With the former, who knows but lots of
> energy
> > >>>   expended in the process until one wakes up to the fact that there
> is
> > no
> > >>>   food on the table or clean water to drink. Do the math. Count the
> > hours
> > >>>   spent on implementation of good permaculture design and the
> benefits
> > >>>   derived from such. There needs to be a balance and I will promote
> > that
> > >>> to
> > >>>   the end of my days and my legacy will continue that after I am
> gone.
> > >>> Look
> > >>>   objectively at a balance between awareness and adoption of the
> > >>> permaculture
> > >>>   ethics as you have defined them and pure nuts and bolts Earth-based
> > >>>   permaculture design living on a site where that design has been
> > >>> created.
> > >>>     LL
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> I am not sure I understand your dichotomy between ethics and greed.
> You
> > >> solve greed by following the ethics...
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >> permaculture mailing list
> > >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > >> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > >>
> > >
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > www.realearthdesign.com
> >
> > 720-496-9744
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kia ora Ehoa
>
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​*
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>
> Permaculture Global Design:
> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
>
> The Permaculture International College
> www.permaculturecollege.eu
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>
> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>



-- 
João Gonçalves

"Ao comprar ou consumir de forma ética também está a intervir na paisagem e
a decidir quem tem trabalho."

"Eating is an agricultural act"  -  "Comer é um acto agrícola" - Wendell
Berry

"Permacultura (Cultura Permanente) é um sistema ético de design ecológico."

(+351) 96 96 80 009
Chão Sobral - Oliveira do Hospital - Serra do Açor - Portugal
http://ecotrabalho.com/
http://permacultureglobal.com/users/902-joao-goncalves
http://chaosobral.org/index_pt.htm
http://www.youtube.com/joaovox
http://agricultura-familiar-tradicional.blogspot.pt
https://picasaweb.google.com/joaovox
http://picasaweb.google.pt/uniprochaosobral

Para descobrir:
Documentário "Alface" na Aldeia das Amoreiras
http://vimeo.com/58999047
Permacultura na Serra do Açor - Portugal
http://permaculturinginportugal.net/blog/
"Comida que nunca acaba" / Permacultura no Malawi
http://www.neverendingfood.org/
Centro de Ecologia Integral
http://www.integralecology.org
Nyumbani - Kenya
http://www.nyumbani.org/about-us