permaculture

[Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>]

A divergent subject...going sideways. I'm contemplating a quick visit to
attend the NAPC II...who sis going ?
Jason ?
Scott ?
Toby ?
Lawrence ?
Albert ?

Hopefully I can juggle it amongst too many other comittments..Steve Hart

On 9 July 2016 at 17:58, scrooge McDuck <declan@planetmail.net> wrote:

> Jason, that must be the US you're talking about. Big big business there
> has bought successive politicians by campaign funding, and influenced laws
> greatly in their favour. The businesses make billions and pay little/no
> taxes. The economy is actually a PLUTONOMY staffed in the main by the
> PRECARIAT - the precarious proletariat.
>
> Yes of course Mollison was right. My university degree in Electronic
> Engineering was a joke. In the days when we are ripping out copper
> infrastructure in telecommunications and putting in glass fibre, we were
> still bring taught about balancing copper lines. We learned every obsolete
> protocol, ,(frame relay, x25, ,rs232, etc) and nothing about new ones.
>
> I would like to see Bill Mollison and maybe Toby Hemenway write up a
> Universal Permaculture Curriculum with specified subjects, hours of course
> time per subject, & practical elements. People should be trained to look
> for PDC Courses that taught the full UPC - a fact they would advertise and
> they would issue attendance certs.
> Design Certification should come from one Central Authority or two at
> least 5 years into a successful design. The design site should be
> registered in year one & photographed & described. Profits and expenses
> should be recorded for the 5 years, and a final report should detail the
> current status and planting scheme, zones, climate over the years etc. This
> cert could be graded like Universities; A 1st, 2:1, 2:2, pass & fail.
> Failures could reapply inside a few years if their work bore fruit. The
> central Authority issuing design certification need never visit, but could
> put up report guidelines & accept reports online.
> Local PDC holders could be asked to verify suspicious cases.
> --
> Declan Moriarty
> Sent from my Android tablet with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> On 08/07/2016, 20:45 Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm glad that post made sense Darrell, Lawrence. Sometimes it's hard to
>> know. Lawrence, feel free to use whatever you like from that post and
>> attribute it to me. I'd be honored. I also thank you for maintaining this
>> list. When it's really engaging it can be so good. The recent biochar
>> thread was eye opening for me.
>>
>> Declan, I basically agree with Mollison about the uneasy marriage between
>> permaculture and higher education. Being one week out of my professorial
>> career as a permaculture teacher of nearly 6 years at a private liberal
>> arts school as well as having taught at land grant colleges and state
>> universities, I found the headaches to be more difficult than the high
>> points, and there were plenty of very high points. I'd say it depends on
>> the institution and the attitude of the professor though. I'm well aware
>> that my anti-establishment attitude got in the way sometimes, as I suspect
>> was the case with Bill too. Ultimately, what bothered me most was the fact
>> that higher ed institutions are a business. I just want to teach and bring
>> the utmost of passion to it. I also couldn't shake the fact that student
>> debt is the largest form of debt in existence. It's exclusive, and it's a
>> sham, built on the faulty foundation of perpetual growth industrial
>> economics whose promises are crumbling before our very eyes, and have been
>> for a very long time. It's hard to teach about economics through a
>> permaculture lens when the majority of students in front of me are
>> uneasily
>> wading into massive debt just to be there. Now could we design education
>> institutions in different ways that aren't based on exclusion, going into
>> debt, federal funding, the politics of business, etc? You bet. There are
>> good examples to pattern and improve off of too.
>>
>> Jason Gerhardt
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Darrell E. Frey <defrey@bioshelter.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Well said Jason!
>> >
>> >
>> > Darrell E. Frey
>> > Three Sisters Farm
>> > defrey@bioshelter.com
>> > www.bioshelter.com
>> >
>> > Author; Bioshelter Market Garden: A Permaculture Farm. New Society
>> > Publishing, 2011
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:47:19 -0600, Jason Gerhardt <
>> jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > In large part, I think the PDC certification problem revolves around
>> > framing. We haven't done a great job at framing what the PDC is, in both
>> > advertisements and in the PDC itself. Looking at most course
>> advertisements
>> > the PDC seems to be a long list of skills to learn ranging from natural
>> > building to food forests. Are we really training people to be
>> > competent/professional natural builders and food foresters, among all
>> the
>> > other things on the list? Not in my experience. So what ARE we doing?
>> Toby
>> > said it really well that "the PDC's main function is to get people
>> thinking
>> > in permaculture terms". I think we need to examine what that really
>> means.
>> > A fundamental question for me is why do many people who take a PDC
>> decide
>> > to teach the PDC or become landscape designers? Sure it's a great way to
>> > force oneself to practice and experience all that permaculture has to
>> > offer, but in the end it's not thinking with a permaculture lens as far
>> as
>> > I'm concerned; it's just monkey see, monkey do.
>> >
>> > Permaculture and the PDC are all about story to me. We train people to
>> be
>> > designers starting with tracking the patterns of the stories all around
>> > them, and within them. As a permaculture teacher I feel I am narrating
>> the
>> > story of what it means to be a living organism in an ecosystem. I have
>> to
>> > tell the stories of climate function and hydrology and soil science and
>> > social history to effectively narrate what it means to be alive on this
>> > planet. The curriculum then builds into how to harness or deflect these
>> > forces to create a civilization that is integrated rather than
>> > disintegrating. Where I think we are lacking is in guiding people in a
>> way
>> > that they can integrate THEMSELVES into that greater story. Do we give
>> them
>> > a new story to live out (you be a farmer, you be a natural builder)?
>> That's
>> > not how I would approach designing for a client, so it's certainly not
>> how
>> > I'm gonna teach people to be pattern readers and how to design. Giving
>> > people a new story to live is just the same old narrative that anybody
>> has
>> > ever been given (you be a banker, you be a drug dealer). Where the PDC
>> can
>> > shine more is in helping people discover their own story. I ask my
>> students
>> > to ask themselves where they come from, what they care about and why,
>> what
>> > experiences they've had and how that affects who they are, etc. I
>> require
>> > students to look at their own life, to map their own sectors and zones,
>> > analyze their own element, so they can place themselves in right
>> > relationship to everything else. It seems to me if we approached the PDC
>> > through that lens we'd have a lot more people discovering their own
>> > passions and incorporating permaculture into the world that way. THAT is
>> > thinking through a permaculture lens. It's a long process, and there is
>> no
>> > promise of a pot of gold at the end, but it actually helps people,
>> rather
>> > than just giving people some new thing to do for a while as a "certified
>> > designer or teacher".
>> >
>> > We are again at a point in human society where people are fundamentally
>> > questioning on a large scale the stories told from the powers that be.
>> My
>> > question is, when do we get guided through a process that helps us
>> discover
>> > the powers that be dormant inside us? When do we discover our own
>> stories?
>> > I actually think permaculture and the PDC can be really good at that
>> (and
>> > quite subversive to the status quo too). Mollison said, permaculture is
>> > basically about putting things in the right place. So ask your students
>> to
>> > design their own lives so they can understand where the right place is
>> for
>> > them. In my experience teaching this way I get few who want to teach the
>> > PDC or design professionally after the course. They realize more how
>> much
>> > they don't know, rather than how much they do know. It leads them to be
>> > curious, to seek further, to think critically, and to really try to
>> arrange
>> > things thoughtfully, starting with themselves. It leads them inward
>> rather
>> > than sending them to their resume to try and look good outward.
>> >
>> > Jason Gerhardt
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Toby Hemenway <
>> toby@patternliteracy.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Oct 22, 2010, at 4:24 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Every PDC I know of gives a certificate at the end of the course
>> saying
>> > > "Permaculture Design Course" and none of them say "trainee." I was
>> told
>> > by
>> > > my teacher that I should apprentice for minimum two years to become a
>> > > teacher, but not a designer.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > There's no restriction on doing design work. Get out and design, no
>> > matter
>> > > whether you've taken a PDC or whatever. And design, and design some
>> more.
>> > > The issue is in calling oneself "certified," as the paper you get is
>> > simply
>> > > a certificate of completion of the PDC, not of certification as a
>> > designer
>> > > (I'd hate to think there are certificates out there saying "certified
>> Pc
>> > > designer", but then, most people just make up their own. I use the one
>> > > Mollison created, via the Permaculture Institute USA). It seems
>> bizarre
>> > for
>> > > someone who has done one team design project in a class to say they
>> are a
>> > > certified designer.
>> > >
>> > > And I totally agree that BIll set up many policies in very vague ways,
>> > and
>> > > as Paul and other say, plenty of people claim the certificate makes
>> them
>> > a
>> > > certified designer. There are currently a number of efforts, in Oz,
>> NZ,
>> > UK,
>> > > and US, among others, to clarify this and correct it. The comments
>> here
>> > so
>> > > far all suggest a high level of integrity, which is the saving grace
>> for
>> > > all this.
>> > >
>> > > Paul's Java story points out a related issue. Java certification, for
>> > one,
>> > > claims from the get-go to be a certification program, and the PDC was
>> > never
>> > > intended to be that. I think some people engaged in what I call
>> "resume
>> > > bloat" and started saying they were certified after a PDC because it
>> > sounds
>> > > very grand, and it caught on.
>> > >
>> > > And the Java program ends with an exam. There is no exam in the PDC.
>> The
>> > > design project is not very rigorously "graded." I know there are rare
>> > times
>> > > when a PDC teacher says a design presentation is too lame to warrant a
>> > > PDC, but that almost never happens. You show up for the project, you
>> get
>> > > your certificate. That's not really grading. PDC teachers all
>> recognize
>> > > that the design project is a student project and is not graded with
>> > > anything at all approaching the rigor of a project that might actually
>> > get
>> > > built as designed. I don't think this is so much a weakness of a PDC
>> as
>> > it
>> > > is proof that the PDC is a merely an intro to permaculture, and
>> > underscores
>> > > that nobody gains enough experience in a PDC to actually do competent
>> > > design work. The PDC's main function is to get people thinking in
>> > > permaculture terms.
>> > >
>> > > Toby
>> > > http://patternliteracy.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > permaculture mailing list
>> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> >
>> > www.realearthdesign.com
>> >
>> > 720-496-9744
>> > permaculture mailing list
>> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> www.realearthdesign.com
>>
>> 720-496-9744
>> permaculture mailing list
>> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
>> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>>
>
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
>


-- 
Kia ora Ehoa

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture International College
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com